Inside the Black Gangster Disciple Nation Crack Cocaine Gang-Corporation
by tdaxp ~ November 30th, 2005
In less than 24 hours I completed Freakonomics: A Rogue Economist Explains the Hidden Side of Everything. Mark Safranski already summarized Freakonomics better than I could, so my “buy this book” post will be a graphical summary of one of the chapters: Why Do Drug Dealers Still With Their Moms?
A heroic grad student named Sudhir Venkatesh worked with a crack cocaine gang — the Black Gangster Disciple Nation — for several years. After attempting to pass out a survey, which began
How do you feel about being black and poor?
(a) Very bad
(b) Bad
(c) Neither bad nor good
(d) Somewhat Good
(e) Very good
Which, besides displaying a lack of symmetry between (b) and (d), left off the correct answer ((f) Fuck you) and almost got young Sudhir killed.
Slowly, though, Sudhir gained their trust, and discovered the corporate structure of the street toughts.
At the top of the pinacle where the Board of Directors, whose twenty boardmen each earned half a million dollars a year. Life was good for a Director
20-man Board of Directors, at $500,000 per annum = $10,000,000 annual expense for BGDN
Below the Board of Directors are the regional Franchisees. Operating like Sheiks, they grossed around $400,000 a year. However, with the Franchisee’s autonomy comes fiscal responsibility. Most of the franchisee’s income has to be spent on expenses, letting the franchisee net $100,000 a year.
100 Franchisees, at $100,00 per annum = $10,000,000 annual expense for BGND
The Franchise of the Black Gangster Disciple Nation studied then had three officers: An Enforcer, who shared acted like Barnett’s SysAdmin, maintaining peace from internal threats
The SysAdmin
A treasurer who, just like in Hall Governments, kept charge of the organization’s money
The Money Man
And a Runner, in charge of logistics.
Amateurs Talk Strategy, Professionals Talk Logistics
The annual salary of three officers was $8,000 per year each.
$8000 / officer / year * 3 officers / franchise * 100 franchises = $2,400,000 / year expense for BGDN
Below the officers were 500 Foot Soldiers. But like the groundtroops of the System Administrator, their job is not violence. As the local Franchisee reported:
We try to tell these shorties that they belong to a serious organization… It ain’t all about killing. They see these movies and shit, and they think it’s all about running around tearing shit up. But it’s not. You’ve got to learn to be part of an organization; you can’t be fighting all the time. It’s bad for business.
Like Barnett’s SysAdmin, the foot soldiers are mostly “private sector” — their true job is salesman. Each of the 50 Foot Soldiers earned $3,960 (yes, much less than minimum wage) every year.
$3,960 / foot soldier / year * 50 foot soldiers / franchise * 100 franchises = $19,800,000 annual expense for BGDN
Below the Foot Soldiers are 200 “rank and file.” These interns wish to rise to the level of Foot Soldier, and pay dues for the chance to one-day rise up the corporate ladder.
$25.50 / R&F / year * 200 R&F / franchise * 100 franchises = $510,000 annual revenue for BGDN
To graph annual income, for an average Director, an average Franchisee, and average Officer, an average Foot Soldier, and an average Rank & File:
Graphically, we can chart the organization structure as:
Corporate Hierarchy
Or more traditionally, looking at the organizational structure as a “flow of security”
Flow of Security
Realizing we can look at the “hierarchy” as just one type of flow, it becomes obvious we can chart the “flow of capital” as well:
Flow of Capital
Which opens questions about the political economy of crack cocaine gangs…
Suffocated by Fat Cats…
However, in Black Gangster Disciple Nation’s defense, foot soldiers do make up the single largest payroll expense for their gang
…Or Starved By Labor?
One might note that if the Black Gangster Disciple Nation is typical of corporate-style crime, John Robb’s suggestions are dangerously wrong.
Interested in learning more? Buy the book.
Update: Stephen J. Dubner, a highly respected journalist and co-author of Freakonomics, was kind enough to link to me on the Freakonomics blog
Dr. Steven D. Levitt, Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago, as well as the other co-author of Freakonomics, was kind enough to comment below.
Update: Over at John Robb, Jamie links to this critique of this gangster of Freakonomics
They do present some anecdotal evidence that the gangsters were not well paid that doesn’t depend on the notebooks, but it’s if anything even weaker. The simple fact that someone lives with his mother is not actually knockdown proof that he is strapped for cash; something like thirty per cent of young Italian men do it for the simple reason that it’s better than cooking and cleaning for yourself. I also think it’s quite naïve to assume that when the gang members (who were, we shall remember, full-time drug dealers) asked Venkatesh to try and get them a janitorial job at the university, this showed that anything, even cleaning toilets on minimum wage, was a better life than the Gangster Disciples. I am hardly the most streetwise guy around, but even I can work out a couple of other possible reasons why a full time drug dealer might want a job which allowed him to wander round a university campus more or less at will. Students buy drugs[5].
Furthermore, even if we take the numbers in the notebooks as reliable, we are faced with the observable fact that crack dealers (even street soldiers) have expensive tastes and hobbies. Even leaving aside the question of trainers and jewelery (on which I have no hard data about ownership to argue against Levitt), it is an undeniable fact that even the most junior members of the Gangster Disciples were able to engage in the hobby of pistol shooting, a popular but expensive middle-class pastime which I would consider to normally be beyond the means of a burger-flipper at McDonalds. The non-salary compensation of JT’s street dealers might be really quite high; access to guns, free admission to nightclubs, favorable deals on stolen goods and clothing, regular social events with local rappers, it all adds up and compares really quite well to the fast food trade, and as far as I can see the informal healthcare plan was also quite generous compared to most mainstream employers in that it covered family members and had substantial death-in-service benefits which would have been worth quite a lot in a neighborhood that was not exactly Hampstead even for non-gang members. I find the seeming absence of any analysis of the non-salary component of compensation quite strange, particularly since the underlying work was done working with a sociologist who would at least have some analytical framework which one might use to measure the value of the benefit to the gang member of being in a gang and thus having some degree of status in a community where status mattered.
Interested in the graphics used in this post? Inkscape, OpenClipart, OpenOffice Draw, and Paint.Net are all free — as in speech!
April 28th, 2007 at 12:00 am
Also when Folk began it was about 3 M`s. MONEY, MAC, MURDER. The money, the women, and taking out anybody that tries to stand in your way. Not kill that nigga cuz his Flagg is red. So to my fellow 6anGers out there Black, Latino, Asian, White, Native) really think about why you bangin on ya own race or other races when you can make peace with them and make money with them. If you're a leader of a organization give to the community that kept you safe dont`t kill the people living in it. Cuz in this war my baby cousins and great grandmothers are dieing in a war of red and blue. Which means what?
May 1st, 2007 at 12:00 am
If we as a people (Blue or Red) never understand that it's not about blue or red, but about green. Until we learn that knowledge, love, and understanding holds the key to our future, our young G's will continue to die unnecessarily, continue to overcrowd the peniteritaries, and continue to contribute to our own genocide of future generations.
Peace,
Hoover—West Coast
June 21st, 2007 at 12:00 am
Im a GD from mississippi and i see a lot of fakes around my hood. A lot of them say they are real but snort powder and smoke meth and majority of them went to school and got degrees or were in the military and got kicked out because of drugs or bad attitudes. They lost the concept of education, economical, political, social, organization, and unity. Like said in another comment i read they have been mislead by the ones they call leaders of the nation out here where im from. Now they're out here in the streets not growing and developing like we should instead they are falling. I also hear that we should murder who ever gets in our way but you cant prosper when you get your life took away. Pass them and continue on with your growth and development. I was in a situation where i was in a carwreck and got a settlement of over 100,000 dollars and put together some GD's in some apartments i was living in called Eastside in Magee, Ms. We had magee on lock with marijuana sales but we ranged from magee to jackson to collins to shivers thats over a hundred and something mile stretch we were small but effective. Never had any touble from the police because for one money will change everything. I gave the police that arrested me for a possession charge a couple hundred dollars and he gave me a pass even though my license were suspended if he seen me driving he will pop his seat belt to let me know to put it on or to let me know if something is ahead up the street. I had my cell phone and my car keys within 10 minutes after the arrest bailed myself and my friend out within forty five minutes after that. What i was saying is that even though i brought that together with everyone making money there was no loyalty among anyone but a few of us. The soldiers i brought together was branching off with other so called GD's who use more of their supply than distribute and all they wanted to do was get fucked up blow money on females instead of get money. What was so fucked up about the situation was i had so called B.O.S staying with me rent free because they didn't have jobs and i was giving them somewhere to stay until they got a job and we still was making money in the streets while only charging them a hundred dollars a month to live with me with utilities needed to be paid not including rent. For some of them i got charges dropped because of my moms connect with the police out here. They started changing and lying to others saying i was a vice loyd and they even went as far as telling the manager and police i stole over four hundred dollars worth of money out of one of the laundry room at the apartments just to get me kicked out on the streets and stop my making money because they knew i am not able to work because in my carwreck i crushed my hip and to a chunk off a bone in my back. Im only 21 years old and i feel as if i have more knowledge than the ones that suppose to be set leaders. Im on my lit from the 360 to the 720 i shouldn't be preaching and teaching to twenty seven and thirty year olds they should be teaching and preaching to me. But i pass them and left them to their down fall because if you give in to your lower self your flame will burn negatively and if your negative desires are strong enough your flame will eventually burn out. I'm one of the GD's who do believe in the growth and development teachings instead of the gang banging way. Yes i smashed some people but did not kill them just thought them that no matter what you do to me or how you think of me i will always be stronger because 6 times out of ten we are down but gangster disciple nation for now and all time.
May 19th, 2007 at 12:00 am
im 74 until d world blow up, we are a specail group of folks who all strive fur knowledge everyday and if we abide by our concepts, we can overcome anything at any point of time and plac all we gotta do is be is all is 1 we r one the most powerful organazation in the world all u gotta do is learn our 6 point stars 360 and 720 and look back on how many of our brothers have defeated d truggle i leave all my folks of the world with nel and pml.i don slang and bang with the best of them for my nation and i always hold my head up high
May 19th, 2007 at 12:00 am
im 74 until d world blow up, we are a specail group of folks who all strive fur knowledge everyday and if we abide by our concepts, we can overcome anything at any point of time and plac all we gotta do is be is all is 1 we r one the most powerful organazation in the world all u gotta do is learn our 6 point stars 360 and 720 and look back on how many of our brothers have defeated d truggle i leave all my folks of the world with nel and pml.i don slang and bang with the best of them for my nation and i always hold my head up high
May 17th, 2007 at 12:00 am
TO ALL, IM 18 , YOUNG ALMIGHT BUT I STILL NEED GROWTH AN DEVELOPMENT CUZ I WAS 15 WHEN I WAS CONVITED AS A FELONE NOT KNOW I GOT EVERY THING TO LOSS
May 16th, 2007 at 12:00 am
MAN FOLKS IS WILD GD ALL DAY FUCK EVERYBODY UNDER THE FIN 6 POPPIN 5 DROPPIN
May 17th, 2007 at 12:00 am
to all. im 17, young almighty disciple i just got out. im a convicted felone with everthing to lose. i love my brothers i have seen alot and heard alot. the main goal is money. not anger not hate,but that clouds your mind from seeing that. we need to learn to realy love our brothers and treat them as a brother. we should strive for the best and be brave through anything.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:00 am
To Lakeside G: Why we so crazy, though!!! I'll tell you why. We have been psychologically contained. What I mean by that is.. there is a system to the madness. If you look at our environment in almost every city in the U.S. where projects and ghettos are and you will find a freeway, railroad, or subway nearby. This is intentional. This system of access will become contained and blocked if a serious
event occurs. The bar has been raised in the equality of employment, meaning if you are not educated formally, then you lack the skills set to perform certain tasks. The system knows if we are not educated, then we are not willing to accept chump jobs when we can sell dope, pimp, or connive and make a bank. The system already forecasts and predicts how many young G's will go to prison. How? They figure if you don't graduate from high school, it is already calculated what type of jobs are open to you..they know its a great possibility you won't take these type of jobs..now the stage is set. Either you become a rapper and come up or you remain in the streets…then they just wait…
Hoover—West Coast
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:00 am
Im a lake side G and Im from South Bend Its a lot of crazy NIGGAS
out here
February 10th, 2007 at 12:00 am
Could you enlighten me enlighten me on the meaning of those numbers?
February 11th, 2007 at 12:00 am
I ant enlightening noone upon nothing so I am sorry to say if you don't know what I speak off you will never know. There are a few that knows what I am saying. We get put down cause certain people that think we a gang, get this straight, we are much more than a gang, we have a cause. OUR FUTURE IS OUR KIDS. Bloods & Crips are the gangs that do drive bys, they kill people cause the colors they wear, that includes young children not more than 13 years old. Im gonna end this hoping that this helps you. I aint speaken no more upon this subject.
16.13.12
2.15.19/19.15.19
7.4.14 Till Tha World
B.o.S Doughman
March 20th, 2007 at 12:00 am
GD all day until da damn world blow!!
BLess my brothers and sisters!!!
April 16th, 2007 at 12:00 am
through tha thoughts of mind,body,and soul is to seek and find tru wisdom,knowledge,and understanding to all following gangstas who have the heart to bring this nation together we must become BROTHER OF STRONG STRUGGLE 2-15-19-19 6-3-6
April 28th, 2007 at 12:00 am
What's good? The reason Folks have and will continue to run the streets is because we are not just about banging but improving our community. Folks don't look for trouble, on the other hand we look for ways to prevent it from getting to a point we're we must use force. Folks know that knowledge is put here to help our minds grow and to help us become a better disciple for our nation. These so called gangs of America have what purpose? What goal do they strive for? The only goal I see is the same goal Hitler had for Germany and the goal KKK has for America. Hitler and KKK believed they are the only ones who belonged in their country. But yet we spite them when we do the same exact thing. Crips and Bloods and Folks and People Nations want the U.S to be flooded with only them. The same for all the other gangs and organizations out there. How can we speak about our ancestors struggle and our own struggle if we are creating a struggle for one another. No race, no gang, no organization will ever stand on top. There will never be one man standing. So why do we participate in the worlds destruction? It’s because we’re brainwashed with hatred for those who aren’t exactly like us. We love blood shed, we love violence, we love stupidity, and we lack knowledge, respect, and love for one another. The human species today is a savage one. Selfish in all we do, Conceited in all that we do, and weak in everything we pursue. o see the truth is to be blessed with a lesson and secret no one else cares to unfold. You discover the true meaning of Love, Life, Loyalty, Wisdom, Understanding, and knowledge. This is only one piece of the Disciple path…… The rest is yet to be discovered, learned, studied, and taught. Respect to Dan. And Respect to the G.
December 14th, 2006 at 12:00 am
74 gd till the fuckin world blow
January 2nd, 2007 at 12:00 am
Whatever…the bottom line here is that most drug dealers are poor. Here is someone who spent the time to validate that through numerical analysis and investigation. This also fits with common sense as well.
The irony is of course that popular culture (movies, videos, music, etc.) portray drug dealing or gang activity as being glamorous and extremely lucrative when in reality it is only a very small percentage that make any real money. And well, $500k a year is a great income, especially if you grew up poor, but isn't exactly rich…
January 2nd, 2007 at 12:00 am
I WAS A GD=GANGSTER DISICIPLE AND KNOWONE CAN TELL ME ITS STUPED OR DUMB OR WILL GET ME INTO TROUBLE, COS IM DOING MUCH BETTER NOW IM IN THE GANG THEN WHEN I WAS IN UNI STUDING BUSINESS STUDIES, I ONLY LEARNT AT AGE 25 THAT ITS SO MUCH EASYER AND MORE FUN BEING A GANGSTER DISICPLE THEN NOT BEING 1, I PASSED ALL MY A LEVELS AT UNI AND AM NOW WORKING FULL TIME IN AN ORGANISATION CALLED GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT AS A DIRECTER.ITS GREAT!. GONE US
January 12th, 2007 at 12:00 am
Everyone up in this wolrd has to have at least one problem with someone else. what G's Do is look for help from there kinfolk. Thats why we are B.O.S.S. We get with who we like and don't take shit from those we don't. we live LIFE with LOVE for or fellow folks. we Stay LOYAL to those willing to contibute to Nation. We Live with the KNOWLEDGE of knowing that we can die at any instant. Yet We gain our WISDOM from our mistakes and UNDERSTAND, the idea OF MAC MONEY MURDER.
G love!
~Sparks~
January 12th, 2007 at 12:00 am
GD till the World Blow
January 16th, 2007 at 12:00 am
Is the BGDN a racist organization?
January 17th, 2007 at 12:00 am
gd to the day i die much love my brothers&sisters
February 10th, 2007 at 12:00 am
You know what it is. I come to all you brothers and sisters of the struggle to show you that 16.13.12 and if ya don't know what that is then I guess it aint for you. I guess that most these ignorante, aint calling no body stupid, if you look IGNORANT up in the webster u will find that it means lack of knowledge. To all the few people that still believe that we(74 Till Tha World Blow) are still with that banging mentality, better step proper or not at all cause last time I checked was when someone disrespect me, causeing some sorta harm toward me, my family, or my nation, of caurse I will bangon you but I was always taught to show respect to others, its life. I come from a Christian home but I have studied Islam. I gave my religion up cause a few people calling me a terrorist cause what other muslims have done. I can enlighten you up on some real shit. Like I say come get some. To all my 2.15.19 & 19.15.19, This is going out to all you 16.13.12.
B.o.S Doughman
March 9th, 2006 at 12:00 am
By the way, the ranking system is inaccurate. There as so many more officers that operate within the set. This is all the information that I am able to share with somebody outside of the organization. Maybe yall will have a better understanding of our nation. Not all of us are ignorant.
March 20th, 2006 at 12:00 am
the nation is strong and nothing can break us for we are the brothers of a rightious struggle.
May 19th, 2006 at 12:00 am
I myself am a BGD living in london and i would have to agree with Dan tdaxp. Being a G is more than just going out and shooting people. It is about growing and disciplining yourself as a person and a nation. I love all my G's from west USA to east to down south, to thouse overseas. But as we all know not every body is true to the G code and instead of looking after family (as family looks after you) they start looking out for themselves. Just like some christians give christianity a bad name just as some gangsters give over gangsters a bad name.
ONE LOVE
July 6th, 2006 at 12:00 am
III first of all I do agree with some things that are being said but tha G's in tha south are really judged becuz some of them (not all) are down here making shit up and i do look out for family as family has looked out for me, God bless tha treys, God bless my ways, im 20 years old and i've seen alot of wanna beez. but u cant drop being black cuz ill never sell out my righteous brothers bcuz I do understand that I belong 2 a righteous group of FOLKS III see tha difference is some try 2 be when others was born in, its in my blood line, but I thought I would drop a lil something 4 yall cuz yes not all yungins is stupid or NOT AWARE III err body in tha south aint on no bullshit its real and very much alive III PLENTY MUCH LOVE to all my fellow B.G.D.'s before me III (T.P.) SOMEBODY NEED 2 CHECK THA ONLINE MEDIA BOUT TRASHING OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS CUZ THEY BE TRYING 2 SAY THAT WE ARE CULT-LIKE BECUZ OF OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS, I SAY FUCK U AND THA FEDS CUZ THEY THA FIRST CULT, DONT SAY NOTHIN BOUT NO BLACK ORGANIZED GROUP TILL KKK'S ARE PUT 2 A STOP.(T.P.) B.G.D.'s SHOULDNT EVEN BE ON HERE TRYING 2 HELP THESE CRAKERS UNDASTAND CUZ THEY WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND——–>B.G.D.N. CRACK-COCAIN GANG-CORPORATION, THATS SOME BULLSHIT AND ITS DISRESPECTFUL, ALL AINT WELL BUT ALL IS ONE……….. HOLLLA III
September 7th, 2006 at 12:00 am
YOU ALL NEED TO RESPECT THE BLUE PRINT AND HONORABLE CHAIRMAN STOP LIVING IN THE PAST IM WHITE AND STR8 74 UNDR THE NEW CONCEPT AND NO MAN CAN TELL ME NO DIFFRENT STOP DISSRESPECTIN THE CHAIRMANS LAWS AND POLICIES CAUSE YOU ALL ARE WRONG ABOUT HOW THIS THING IS RUN COMING STR8 FROM A REAL B.O.S
September 8th, 2006 at 12:00 am
Much luv 2 Hoover is My King. U have it totally correct and u are up on ur correct lit and history. The Growth and Development movement has been corrupted because many Folks have not adopted the 720 concept. They do not listen 2 the Chairman laws and polices. They are stil lon the whoel gang bangin life style adn thats totally against our organization. I have never had another brother tell me 2 commit a illegal act or any wrong. We are not a criminal organization like the mafia which the FBI compares us 2. i laugh wen i see police comapring us 2 the crips or callin us BGDs this is niot true. its jus all of the fakes and misguided BOS's are on the wrong path becuz they maybe be in a fake set or are in a bad neighborhood. Hell i luv poor as hell and are struggling right now. I have the choice 2 sell drugs and commit crimes but thats not the way of a true Disciple. But still the money from the board of directors goes 2 legit companys and organizations. such as D.A.D.A. and Ghetto Prisoner Wear Clothing that the feds wotn let ne1 from the chairmans family git any profit from. Its ignorance we sum1 labels a whole group the same thing. and alot ppl group folks and the GDN with thugs and drug dealers. I have known many Folks who have gone 2 college and lived succesful lives. We are human beings and were put into serious disadvantage in our communites. Its hard 2 do good in school and git a real job wen all ur life ur shown the easy way out of a unfair situation. Black, White, Latino it doesnt matter were all brothers of the struggle and will forever strive 4 greatness and sucess in this world. Are real enemy isnt VL's BPS's adn LK's but this corrupt goverenment which will always try 2 make money of the suffering of the weak and poor. All Cant Be Well Till All Is One. G Strollin in 720 Degrees. 3rd World Luv Folks.
October 15th, 2006 at 12:00 am
well im b.o.s till i die and remember its not about gangbanging we just have luv for this
organization folk. money mack n murda datz what itz all about. 4 1 0 b.o.s and love to all my kinfolks
December 9th, 2006 at 12:00 am
epople need to respect who we are
December 10th, 2006 at 12:00 am
Sean Allen, and others,
I agree that respect is important. A sense of fairness and justice is important.
I want to thank you for this continuing discussion. Of all the communities on this blog, the BGDN have perhaps been the most respectful and informative.
Thank you.
March 9th, 2006 at 12:00 am
BGDN is now Born God Divine Nation. Hoover has resquested that we drop the Bs (black) and the Is (Insane) because we are no longer only black, and to be insane is to be mentally dead. Just as he changed GD to mean Growth and Development. Folk is like any other organization . . . we have become corrupt. Many people misunderstand this organization and it's intentions. The problem is that many wannabe Gs claim Folk and don't even know what they're representing. To be in a gang is a quickly growing fad among youth, and they often distort our cause to resemble more that of crips and slobs. We're supposed to be different in that we are eduacted, loyal, and willing to help the minority rise above the majority. We are not supposed to fight each, pollute our minds and bodys with drugs, violate one another with violence, and ever forget the laws that hoover has made for us. All Gs caught violating the True purpose of Folk will be X'd out. Yes, it is true that we sell drugs, but so does the CIA. And it is true that despite our noble intentions that we do stray, but so do so Christians. Did you know Folks marched with Martin Luther King? Not every G is candidate to destruction. All is one but all is not well. Love to my Kings, and love to the G.
January 30th, 2006 at 12:00 am
To Him for Whom Hoover is His King,
Thank you for not threatening to kill me. Or sue me. Or just go ahead and censor me. You have proven yourself — and by extension all in BGD — to be more civilized than radical Islamists [1], NationMaster [2], or the Chinese Communist Party [3].
You have my gratitude.
What does BGD now mean?
I recognize that the analysis of BGDN presented in this post is simplified. If it is inaccurate, however, could you explain how?
[1] http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2005/07/09/dan-abu-td-axp-al-iksperiyenciyya-mujahidi.html
[2] http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2005/11/10/natonmaster-folds-kind-of.html
[3] http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2005/10/30/the-people-s-republic-of-china-v-tdaxp.html
January 30th, 2006 at 12:00 am
U got alot of facts twisted. Not only did u generalize BGDs, but that don't go down every where like that. And I don't think yall recognize that we're lawyers, doctors, soldiers, teachers . . . among other things. Either by the ballot or the bullet, we will acheive world domination. All is one but all aint well. HOYAS we FLIGHT, and my wings aint never droppin while I'm in that 720 stroll. And one more thang, BGD don't mean Black Gangster Disciple no more. u barely scraped the surface of how thangs go down with BGD. By my kings blessed . . . J
December 2nd, 2005 at 12:00 am
Freakonomics is a nice read… reminds me of the movie Pi.
That said, “Why Do Drug Dealers Still With Their Moms?”
The book never addresses if the Moms live(d) with the anyone making over 100k a year, and it would not suprise me if they did…
As for John's comments I would agree, the system worked in the 80's and I don't think you would find any gang like that today.
– Anonymously
December 2nd, 2005 at 12:00 am
Anonymously,
The street-level drug deals in the BGDN made far less than 100k a year, so their mothers clearly didn't love with rich workers. It would indeed be interesting if the mothers of the Franchisees or Directors lived with their successful sons. It would be an interest anthropological question.
American films and TV (particular The Godfather and The Sopranos) would imply not, but besides being instances of white gangs they are also, of course, ficticious criminal enterprises.
There is some evidence that vertically organized, managed criminal enterprises still exist: http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2005/08/13/managing-crime-on-the-southern-border.html
December 2nd, 2005 at 12:00 am
Dan,
I think the reason you saw the more vertically integrated gang in the 1980s crack market was because drug production had not yet been commoditized. I.e. the cartels were still in power in Columbia, etc.
One set of data that would be informative would be to look at the meth trade today. All indications are that it is heavily decentralized, especially because the product can be manufactured in country from (until very recently) readily available materials.
December 1st, 2005 at 12:00 am
Wow, great post.
December 1st, 2005 at 12:00 am
Dan, thanks for the answer and I like your blog too. Here's my response:
The problem is extremely likely to evolve. The Colombian cartels, and even al Qaeda itself, used a hierarchical structure (similar to what you outline) prior to becoming targets of the state. However, once these structures were broken up a new more decentralized and fluid structure emerged that is much more difficult to fight.
December 1st, 2005 at 12:00 am
John,
Thank you for the kind words. With your clear writing and extensive background http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/about.html you clearly know what you are saying.
Indeed, I think we may agree.
While Global Guerrillaism is not a natural (profit- or power- maximizing) strategy for a network, state persecution of a tribe's vertical command-and-control structure could drive the remnants into something like Global Guerrillaism.
The solution in most cases is for states to avoid criminalizing as much as possible, and for the rest “managing crime.” I think Japan's history with the Yakuza shows this can work quite well.
In cases where tribal networks are purposefully destroyed, the state should realize that it may be fighting a very dangerous, GG-style enemy. If a state decides the existing enemy is so wiked that fighting a GG-style enemy is preferable, it may have to utilize loyalist paramilitaries http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/johnrobb/2005/06/loyalist_parami.html or family liberation http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2005/06/29/lakotization_is_family_liberation.html.
December 1st, 2005 at 12:00 am
One top tier defense intellectual, one top tier economist – a good day for the tdaxp comment section. Or any blog for that matter. Bravo, Dan !
You are too kind as well.
” The solution in most cases is for states to avoid criminalizing as much as possible”
Greater legitimacy by trying to control fewer things:
Nation-State —————————–> Market-State
December 1st, 2005 at 12:00 am
Mark,
Thanks! And now having met a speed-dating UPenn evolutionary psychologist http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2005/12/01/university-of-pennsylvania-evolutionary-psychologist-visits.html, tdaxp is moving and shaking
Commenters should be the heart of any blog, and I am very, very proud that so many have found the time to write a few works and click “Send.” It makes blogging wonderful.
I agree that the Market-State might be a more specialized, more durable form of state in a globalized world. I wonder how, by specializing, a violence-wielding Virtual Caliphate could enjoy greater legitimacy, power, and authority..
November 30th, 2005 at 12:00 am
Truly awesome! Thanks.
I hope for your sake the runner doesn't see how you
represented him. He might come looking for you.
November 30th, 2005 at 12:00 am
Dr. Levitt,
Thank you for dropping by! I had a wonderful time reading your book. On this blog, through instant message conversations, and in person, I spread the good word.
A friend of mine, the historian Mark Safranski, noted that your book does have “hidden theme, despite the protests of the authors to the contrary. Their theme is…. Counterintuitive thinking.” http://zenpundit.blogspot.com/2005/06/why-freakonomics-caught-fire-books-on.html
He also mentioned, “anybody in today's academic world who analyzes the effects of abortion on crime rates or the longitudinal economic effect of ” Black-sounding ” names on children is a man without fear.”
Fearless counterintuitive thinkers — we need more of those!
If BGDN runners do start sending threatening letters to tdaxp, they'll join NationMaster http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2005/11/05/censored-by-nationmaster-in-retaliation-for-a-negative-revie.html, the Chinese Communists http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2005/10/30/the-people-s-republic-of-china-v-tdaxp.html and Islamobolsheviks http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2005/07/09/dan-abu-td-axp-al-iksperiyenciyya-mujahidi.html in the growing list of enemies
November 30th, 2005 at 12:00 am
Why am I wrong?
November 30th, 2005 at 12:00 am
John,
Thank you for stopping by. I admire both of your blogs, and it is an honor for you to comment.
The Black Gangster Disciple Nation can be compared to the tribal enemies our SysAdmin will face, and that we are now facing in Iraq. Ultimately, the enemy force is just a vehicle for shifting money and prestige to its leaders.
As such, a SysAdmin will naturally concentrate on buying off enemies when reasonable, coopting enemies when reasonable, and policework when reasonable. In situations such as these, counter-Global-Guerrillaism would merely compound the problem.
On the page I linked to, you criticized Barnett thusly
“His SysAdmin force (perhaps brought on by too many years working for Uncle Sugar) a big company bureaucratic approach to a decentralized problem”
However, to the extent the SysAdmin's main tasks is counter-tribal-warfare, such as fighting the bulk of Iraq's insurgents the BGDN in the US, it is not facing a truly “decentralized” problem. Rather, it is facing a set of small but centralized problems.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:00 am
its all luv and its 7 4 on mines til im laid out and its no big “i”s n lil “u”s in within the nation but in keeping to our teachings i see alot of violation of our first law i kno yall tryna realign perception and eliminate common misconceptions but its not our place folks lets keep it street n show respect for our executive staff by honoring their wishes to keep it 100 his studies and deceptions are not our cause 2 15 19
September 14th, 2007 at 12:00 am
wat upfam,2 all my folks datz real g'z and tryin to get dis shiy right holla atcha B.o.S macon,ga is lost!!!!!!******
September 21st, 2007 at 12:00 am
Everybody sale dope for a reason !!!!!
October 6th, 2007 at 12:00 am
AS A WHITE MEMBER IN IMPERIAL DISCIPLE'S…I AM PROUD TO BE IN THIS ORGANIZATION. HAVE BEEN SINCE 1993. I WEAR MY COLORS PROUD STILL TO THIS DAY, I'LL NEVER STOP. I LOVE MY BROTHERS OF STRUGGLE, AND WILL DIE FOR THEM. I SEND MY REGARDS TO “KING:LARRY HOOVER” I LOVE YOU, KEEP YOUR HEAD UP BROTHER-7-4. WRITE ME, IF YOU READ THIS, I GOT YOUR BACK ANYWAY I CAN.
October 6th, 2007 at 12:00 am
AND ONE MORE THING….WE ARE NOT…A CRACK/COCAINE GANG… MUTHA FUCKER DO YOU KNOW WHO YOUR FUCKIN WITH? BETTER WATCHA' MOUTH ABOUT A SUBJECT, YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT. WE RESPECT OUR COMMUNITIES AND WE RAISE OUR CHILDREN WITH RESPECT. SO BOW-DOWN BEFORE YOU GET LAID DOWN…TRICK!!!!! 7-4/2-15-19/ 11:16–FOREVER AND ETERNAL.I LOVE YOU… B.O.S. AND S.O.S.
October 11th, 2007 at 12:00 am
i am old school devoted since quoted since 1984 i want to start a crew here in cincinnati but real brothers are hard to find i still talk to some of my brothers i am going to start writing on this space somethin called runnin it wher i would talk in a ryhming way any thing that comes to my head starting oct-12 2007
October 11th, 2007 at 12:00 am
I Have been a G since 1999 but I have been practicing our principles my whole life. and there are too many people calling themselves G's nowadays disrespecting by snorting drugs and not living there life to prosper how can I find by real brothas and sistas out there?
October 14th, 2007 at 12:00 am
Iam also a white folks retired BOS but never off count.I agree that the newer generation of youngsters is staining the true meaning of the new concept.They get the wrong impressions from the start and won't adhere to the laws&polices set forth by our chairman and executive staff.But i believe it's all in how the minds of the youth work and that they are not fully developed to take on simple laws and responsibilities and learn about education,politics…It all seems pointless to them at young ages ,to them it won't buy that coat or those jordans.Chief said he is trying to wake that sleeping giant”meaning:the youth and there stupidity”.We need more littiture teachers out there teaching the true meaning of our concepts with promises of a better future for the orginization and the individual.Can't never knock the hustle in the midst of the whirlwind and learning though,all people do what they gotta to stay alive and feed there families as a human.74-14 -4-Life!! Free Larry hoover,Free Panama,Free Big Black,Free Speedy.
Spring-G | East st.louis illinois.
November 12th, 2007 at 12:00 am
yo wat it G like gangsters im 74 GD im on my way to da top as well i use to be 274 BGD i got swirched ova cuz my director wasnt wat he wuz claimen to be he violated big time now i got my own crew and da money,power and respect has twisted it sekf right into my hands i gotta tell u i ain't even graduate cuz i got put out cuz a motherfucking slob said some i aint like so 4 him being wat he iz i took hiz ass off da map.74-4.10-Gs and 2.15.19-(R.I.P and love KING DAVID) and LONNIE “popp” RICHARDS WILLIAMS.GD til da world blow
November 17th, 2007 at 12:00 am
hey nuk jam tu ju kuptu se qka keni ardh ju ne ks pse
November 20th, 2007 at 12:00 am
It is a ittle dangerous bein in a gang cause people will be lookin for u.And if they don't find u they'll go for ur family then but thats why u got to have ur homies next to u to fight.
November 23rd, 2007 at 12:00 am
SUP FOLKS SGDn TIll DA WORLD BLOW AMOR TO ALL THA BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF DA STRUGGLE . SPANISH GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT
November 23rd, 2007 at 12:00 am
(6 PLEDGE) The night I was born Folks was the night I died. As my brethren cast my body into the lake of Fire and Knowledge I was baptized. One with my nation by my Kings blessed. With a Pitchfork in my hand and a Six on my chest. Others will speak my name and know the name of Death. I live by the Nations laws, die by the Disciples Creed. Loyal to my Nation, loyal to my breed. The day my Flag falls then so does my body fall. But my Nation will always stand in the shine of the Six. All is One, One is All!
December 1st, 2007 at 12:00 am
HAPPY BIRTHDAY LARRY HOOVER. CONTINUE TO STRUGGLE. OUR LOVE…B.O.S
IKE T 74
December 3rd, 2007 at 12:00 am
ima ride or die for my niggaz and i aint scared to put my finger on da trigga peace and love nigga we gon raise da six drop da 5
December 5th, 2007 at 12:00 am
I am always happy for socialization on my blog, but iesha, iket, et al… any comments on the original Freakonomics summary?
December 20th, 2007 at 12:00 am
waz poppin to all my 2.15.19 n 19.15.19 fucc all slo6^s
December 20th, 2007 at 12:00 am
“waz poppin to all my 2.15.19 n 19.15.19 fucc all slo6^s”
I assume that means “no.”
It's been a fun ride, but I'm closing comments to this thread now.
June 19th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Hello Everyone. I Am A Gangsta Disciple Out Of Memphis,TN. Now I Am Dissapointed At Some Of My FOLKS for arguing with these ignorant ass people. We Are True GDs And We Know What We Stand For. All Is One.
King Hoover Would be Dissapointed If He Were To See This. We Are Growth And Development And Growth And Development At Best.
We Are Not “Gang Bangers”! Thats Those Dumb Ass Crips And Bloods.
We Are Intelligent. So To All My Brothers And Sisters Of The Struggle 16.13.12 And Keep It Straight Gangsta.
From TUTU G And H.O.O.D,
G Easy
June 19th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
III am an gangsta desciple outta Rockford Illinois we all kno we gangsta desciple why we all sittin here tellin them how we supposed to run our operation but they dnt go to them uss as kkk n try to learn there operation but we all kno how we live and we all kno how we ride growth and development to tha fullest so why do we keep tellin these crackers our buisness we all together as a family u do for the family n the family do for u so all my brothers and sisters 16.13.12 so keep it hood n we gon keep growin and developein
July 13th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
I have read all of the comments by the BOS, BGD, etc. members writing to this blog, and unfortunately only one of you makes any sense. Brothers To a Positive Direction sounds as though he is the only one of you that is capable of writing a complete sentence. He is also the only one capable of putting his thoughts into an understandable paragraph.
Many of you talk about the injustice of the world and how the BGDN will help you overcome without being involved in criminal activity. Please explain how you will earn money if you aren’t literate. If you cannot communicate without using shorthand terms like “cuz” and strings of numerals, how can you expect to gain long term employment?
Larry Hoover has done nothing for you, the black community, and impoverished people. If you think he has, then why are you still uneducated and living in a ghetto? (and most of you cannot deny this)
You are the only person that can improve your lot in life. Belonging to an organization that kills, sells drugs, sells women, steals, and conducts other criminal activities will not bring you out of the depths of poverty. The only ones it helps are those at the top, and most of them are dead or in prison. Stop blaming others for your lack of initiative. Go back to school and learn to read and write. Get an education, then go out and get a job. If that’s too hard, then you are responsible for your own defeat. Ask King Hoover what he can do for you if you won’t involve yourself in criminal activity. I know his answer. “NOTHING”.
October 23rd, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Tony is correct in the aspect of literacy. However you are incorrect in saying the teachings of our King Hoover have not aid & assisted thousands of young brothers of the strong struggle like myself. Since i have been blessed into the nation and given a book of knowledge i have improved my social, educational, and intellectual abilities.
I am a senior in high school and have maintained a grade point average of 3.6 or higher since i was a freshman. I can honestly say that the only reason i made it out of seventh grade was the teachings of our King Hoover. If you were a part of the Blueprint for Growth and Development, then you would witness everyday, one of your brother of the strong struggle being accepted to a college or university, the aid and assist of financially challenged members.
Not once have i ever seen a member true to our struggle sell drugs, commit an act of violence, or disrespect anyone under the five. Because its all illegal in the eyes of our King Hoover and his Executive Staff. Laws are to be inforced, and codes are to be followed. I’m 17, no kids, no record, no drugs have ever been in my system, i have never tasted liqour, and i live in one of the worst hoods on Indianapolis, Indiana
“Love Life Loyalty got it all started, without pure Knowledge Wisdom and Understanding it will soon be departed”
“360 mind, 720 temper”
October 23rd, 2008 at 7:08 pm
just to add, i am currently taking college courses, and im on track for academic honors, all because of one the laws i have sworn to live by.
October 25th, 2008 at 7:48 am
Chris,
You are by far the most eloquent of all followers of Mr. Hoover that has contributed to this discussion.
You make your point well.
Thank you for your contribution.
October 27th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
I’m just doing what i can to achieve 720 degrees
December 3rd, 2008 at 8:37 am
In the beginnig was the WORD, and the WORD was with GOD, and the WORD was GOD.
He was in the beginning with GOD.
All the were made through HIM, and without HIM nothing was made that was made.
In HIM was life and the life was the light of men.
and the light shines in the darkness, and the did not comprehend it.
(Book of St.John in the HOLY BIBLE chp.1 V.1-5)
Love Folks,
With Love, Respect & Concern do I attempt to express myself to all that may be.
GOD is LOVE and Love is Good and Good is GOD.
Every principal We stand for has just about
come from the scriptures of the Blble.
I learned this after becoming N/A in the nation.
I believe Tha OlE’MAN, began to see the Purpose of the Power of his Position but was incarcerated before establishing change.
Once P.O.W.ed, he began to shift our level of understanding in our goals & objective. (GROWTH & DEVELOPEMENT)
I was born homeless and raise in the streets by a 15 year old girl who only knew what her father tought her. My Grandfather was 33rd. Degree Mason, a collage dean as well as a Minister. Knowledge Wisdom & Understanding was passed to my O.G.(mom) before he died, She was 12yrs. old. She raisd me alone. I had no father. My Mom was afraid to be loose with guys so I had no male in my life. O.G. taught me about G.O.D. and I thought it was a nice story but didn’t take it to be true. I was blessed into the Nation following a desire to add to myself Strength, Independance,Purpose,Belonging & Selfworth. I had passion to become a Huey P. Newton or Malik El’ Shabazz (You can find the SIX POINT in origin of the Shabazz Tribe, A Hebrew Nation)I wanted to Help Our Folk Succeed.
My ambition led me to the B.O.S.S. Nation. I was Groomed into the misconception of Money, Power,Respect by power hungry individuals who were not use to the heart of a Tru Disciple, meaning I wanted to learn the truth.Growth & Developement in it’s purest state is the principal teaching of Mind Ova Matter. Dedication, Discipline & Determenation is what fuels the principle. The result survival of the Mind Body & Soul………
(I’m at work I’ll holla back soon)
2-15-19- 16-13-12 7-4-13
December 3rd, 2008 at 11:09 am
Before my acceptance in the Nation, I was a Ten-7 Hoova Gangsta Crip from 41blk.L.B.G. in North St. LouisMo. As a youth striviing for growth I became very active iv criminal activity. i was down like 4 flate tires. durring a series of fights and small battles i learn that our ways of function had no support for violent acts of dedication and recieved assistance from a G.D. who noticed my Struggle. From that moment of assistance, i view Loyalty as it’s a must and that G.D.’s owned it.
Most of my Family are F.O.L.K. And I probroly should have already been G. But the lack of family Unity played part. I wanted to be sure I was an authentic G. so badly til I was Blessed in and walked the line plus stood on my Sixes. Niether deck taught me proper Knowledge, but I believe G.O.D. was with me then and the 606-360-& 720 was rewarde to me. The greater my Tourch flamed, the more i began to see that things were’nt all well.
(I learn primitively about Life through the Nation. I learned values and substance through our Nation’s lit. and history. I’ve even been arrested for non-violent protest upholding the Nation’s Glory. The G.D.’s we’re my first Family. The Ole’ Man stated something that stuck with me for Life in the 720. “I read If a man cannot benefit from form of fashion in which a body opperates, then he need not be apart of it’s movement. ”
From that point on I began to Practice the( jive P’s) in order to insure proper performance. In the year of 92, I was arested and approached by a member of the naton of Islam for recruitment. I defended my K.W.&U. the best of my ability and stood , ( at work I’ll holla back.
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:03 am
While reading “Code of the Street”, by Elijah Anderson, I remembered this post and the book when the author observed that the life of youth who work in the drug business is really nothing more than living and working in a pyramid scheme. The dope game for most of its participants is also a darn near 24/7 position, considering the need to be wary of others creeping on the “stash” and of fiends who want late night highs (something I never thought was true but have witnessed firsthand this summer in Greensboro neighborhoods).
December 22nd, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Interesting book! [1]
I like the focus on respect, or honor-violence. Much of the inner cities seem to operate as if they are post-war zones. [2]
While I like the physical environment of our old Lincoln neighborhood better [3], since moving to Omaha our neighbors have gone from being fellow grad students (good!) and fellow “locals” (very bad!) to working class (pleasant — less chances of a pick-up mah jongg game, less chances of meth house exploding).
[1] http://www.amazon.com/Code-Street-Decency-Violence-Moral/dp/0393320782
[2] http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2008/10/17/review-of-the-searchers.html
[3] http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/03/30/walking-to-work-in-lincoln-nebraska.html
December 23rd, 2008 at 11:08 am
I appreciate that “Searchers” review and how you compare it to a post-war zone. Perhaps a post-civil war zone, given the battering social, political, economic and cultural institutions seem to have taken in the inner city in the past and even to this day.
December 24th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Eddie,
Hmmm.. interesting thought.
I guess the alternate rival hypothesis is that the dysfunction at the inner city began at roughly the same time as the emergence of black female hostility to miscegenation. [1]
What evidence should we look for either way? Would any evidence refute any of the alternatives?
I am curious…
[1] http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2008/12/03/the-recent-origins-of-black-female-hostility-to-miscegenation.html
January 21st, 2009 at 2:20 pm
GD is not about drugs, its because of false claimers that our name is mixed with acts of senseless knowledge. BGD tolerates no act that is not conductive to the growth of ones self and the nation. The basic principle is growth in ones self will then contribute to growth in the nation, and if one hinders that growth he considered a threat, and an enemy then removed from the nation. Our nation being put in a category with gangs comes as a result of ignorance remembering only negative instead of embracing the positive future.
“720 mind”(360 temper)
“All cant be well, but ALL IS ONE”
February 2nd, 2009 at 11:59 am
I’m tired of mufucka’s 6ringin race up n tha organization yea i’m white 23 n rep 7 4 14 3rd world ghosttown gangsta all day n if u n a family den it don’t matter wha race u is unless u a racist den dat’s poor parentin or u jus scarred,wha eva’s cleva. 6 FLY 5 DIE
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:17 pm
And thats why King Hoover has requested we change the B to Blueprint, or Better, because all of our brothers are not black, we have been anintergrated organization for quite some time now. Tru has made a alid point.
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:18 pm
“Valid point” excuse me
“720mind”(360temper)
“All cant be well, but ALL IS ONE”
February 20th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
GIRST THNG WE AINT NO DRUG GANG WE LEAVE THAT TO CRIPS SO IF YALL DONT KNOW WHAT YALL TALKIN ABOUT SHUT THE FUCK UP 7-4 ALL DAY
February 20th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
WE ARE A ORGANIZATION OF LOVE LIFE LOYALTY AND WISDOM WE DONT KILL THE ONLY THING WE KILL IS SLOBZ WHEN THEY RUN UP WE HELP THE COMMUNITY NOT BRING IT DOWN YALL ARE LYIN ON THESE WEBSITES TALKIN ABOUT WE ARE BAD PEOPLE WE CARE ABOUT ARE COMMUNITY WE AINT CRIPS JUST BECASUE WE GOT THE SAME STAR WE DIFFRENT SO STOP LYIN ON US 7-4 ALL DAY ONE LOVE
May 15th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Take this coming from someone who got plugged in 1978. All of you who are
mixing the old with the new are responsible for whats wrong now! The old is
just that. So be men and women enough to let the past be the past.
Where I come from here in Chicago to us from the 3rd world, before the split
and the cocaine, we were all as one. That means, BG’s, BD’s & BGD’s came
under one law. When the time came to progress certain ones did not want to.
This is when BOS was created under the growth & development program.
The BG’s broke away and started New Breed, and the BD’s also and rearranged the old laws to exclude any ties to the old, and the BGD’s either retired or stepped back staying with their one love concept. I for
my part was an advocate against implementing the New Concept because
once I reviewed it I knew that it was premature for it to be taught.
To complete my comment I will say this, as being formally of the old to the
new leadership that everyone who has gotten on here to say all of what
theyv’e said I ask please to stop mixing the old and the new together. GD
does not mean gangster disciple. This term is a new generic aldi vs jewels
payless vs jordan usage by the mislead and the self appointed, false flaggers that are misrepresenting the original nation, emblem and flag. These new self appointed members are behaving like BGD’s under BOS
which is two different things. Whoever disagrees doesn’t know their history. So they won’t know their future. I was there. 1978! I am 47. My name is SENSEI FROM Cabrini Green & the 100’s. Original under Don Twin, General Falcon, Minister Funtaine & Minister Stan Freeman. Don Jubaby, Don Hissan. Plenty Much.
May 27th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Peace Tripple Ol G. Sensei
I ask that you reachout to a curious mind and aid with the understanding of why complexities of this nation have crumbled around and behind the destruction of societies intentions for the downfall. Time taken out to politic and explore the depths of rationale would be very much appreciated. Jguddauh@yahoo.com is my contact.
PML 4.12