<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Turkey-in-Europe, or Turks out of Europe?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html</link>
	<description>High-minded, fanatically malthusian perspectives</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:18:06 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: tdaxp &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Russians-in-Europe, or Russians-of-Europe?</title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html/comment-page-1#comment-168703</link>
		<dc:creator>tdaxp &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Russians-in-Europe, or Russians-of-Europe?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html#comment-168703</guid>
		<description>[...] would be interesting to see Turks in this diagram.  &#171; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] would be interesting to see Turks in this diagram.  &laquo; [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tdaxp</title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html/comment-page-1#comment-164720</link>
		<dc:creator>tdaxp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html#comment-164720</guid>
		<description>w - ,

The Ottoman Empire was under sharia law for centuries [1].  Unlike those areas of the old Roman Empire that stayed Christian, the Islamized former-Roman provinces lost legal and cultural continuity with the pre-Islamic civilization that preceeding the conquest.

I agree that Turkey has strikingly anti-religoius laws, similar to France&#039;s code.  I am not sure that the best way to protect human rights is to prevent people from having the right to express their religion.

Still, Russia&#039;s invasion of Georgia [2,3] is a clarifying moment.  Both Turkey and Europe need to be in Europe, sooner rather than later. It is much easier for Europe to survive the cultural conflict that large-scale Turkish immigration would bring than to resist Russian aggression. 

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Ottoman_Empire
[2] http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2008/08/08/why-did-russia-invade-georgia.html
[3] http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2008/08/10/8808-like-8290-and-91101.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>w &#8211; ,</p>
<p>The Ottoman Empire was under sharia law for centuries [1].  Unlike those areas of the old Roman Empire that stayed Christian, the Islamized former-Roman provinces lost legal and cultural continuity with the pre-Islamic civilization that preceeding the conquest.</p>
<p>I agree that Turkey has strikingly anti-religoius laws, similar to France&#8217;s code.  I am not sure that the best way to protect human rights is to prevent people from having the right to express their religion.</p>
<p>Still, Russia&#8217;s invasion of Georgia [2,3] is a clarifying moment.  Both Turkey and Europe need to be in Europe, sooner rather than later. It is much easier for Europe to survive the cultural conflict that large-scale Turkish immigration would bring than to resist Russian aggression. </p>
<p>[1] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Ottoman_Empire" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Ottoman_Empire</a><br />
[2] <a href="http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2008/08/08/why-did-russia-invade-georgia.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2008/08/08/why-did-russia-invade-georgia.html</a><br />
[3] <a href="http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2008/08/10/8808-like-8290-and-91101.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2008/08/10/8808-like-8290-and-91101.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wtf?</title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html/comment-page-1#comment-164326</link>
		<dc:creator>wtf?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 06:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html#comment-164326</guid>
		<description>Wtf?  Sharia law? What are you talking about? Let alone having sharia law, covering your head is PROHIBITED in Turkey. It is a strictly secular country, and is much more so than the United States, where muslim women can cover their head, whereas in Turkey, they cannot.

Your arguments are way too biased, and lacks any connections with truth. I advise you to go visit Turkey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wtf?  Sharia law? What are you talking about? Let alone having sharia law, covering your head is PROHIBITED in Turkey. It is a strictly secular country, and is much more so than the United States, where muslim women can cover their head, whereas in Turkey, they cannot.</p>
<p>Your arguments are way too biased, and lacks any connections with truth. I advise you to go visit Turkey.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tdaxp</title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html/comment-page-1#comment-120955</link>
		<dc:creator>tdaxp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html#comment-120955</guid>
		<description>Sevak,

Thanks for your comment.

You raise important points.  I think from a geopolitical perspective the biggest question Europe faces on Turkey is with regard to Russia.  Would accepting Turkey slow down or speed up membership for Ukraine?  

With Ukraine in Europe, Russia is fundamentally weakened.  Turkey also would hurt Russia. These are both important objectives. [1]

I hope they do not conflict.

[1] http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2008/08/14/russia-is-bad.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sevak,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment.</p>
<p>You raise important points.  I think from a geopolitical perspective the biggest question Europe faces on Turkey is with regard to Russia.  Would accepting Turkey slow down or speed up membership for Ukraine?  </p>
<p>With Ukraine in Europe, Russia is fundamentally weakened.  Turkey also would hurt Russia. These are both important objectives. [1]</p>
<p>I hope they do not conflict.</p>
<p>[1] <a href="http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2008/08/14/russia-is-bad.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2008/08/14/russia-is-bad.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sevak</title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html/comment-page-1#comment-120200</link>
		<dc:creator>Sevak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html#comment-120200</guid>
		<description>Hello!

To even consider Turkey in the EU is not right, beacuse they have shown time after time tha they simply are not ready. The freedom of speech for example, Hrant Dink , wrote about the armenian genocide, waht happened to him, murder. 
And for example sweden wehere I live they don&#039;t edmit the armenian genocide beacuse they think Turkey will not develop, as many other countries also have said the same thing, but i think it&#039;s completely the opposite, they develop even more if they edmit that they performed a genocide, beacuse then they will become modern and more sofisticated.

And not to think of their barbaric way to put up a big turkish flag made by lights on the mountains of Armenia and Cyprus so all of the population can see it.

That&#039;s just  coupe of many reasons why Turkey not to be even considered in any question about the EU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello!</p>
<p>To even consider Turkey in the EU is not right, beacuse they have shown time after time tha they simply are not ready. The freedom of speech for example, Hrant Dink , wrote about the armenian genocide, waht happened to him, murder.<br />
And for example sweden wehere I live they don&#8217;t edmit the armenian genocide beacuse they think Turkey will not develop, as many other countries also have said the same thing, but i think it&#8217;s completely the opposite, they develop even more if they edmit that they performed a genocide, beacuse then they will become modern and more sofisticated.</p>
<p>And not to think of their barbaric way to put up a big turkish flag made by lights on the mountains of Armenia and Cyprus so all of the population can see it.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s just  coupe of many reasons why Turkey not to be even considered in any question about the EU.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeff Medcalf </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html/comment-page-1#comment-13616</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Medcalf </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html#comment-13616</guid>
		<description> &lt;p&gt;It&#039;s funny, but I&#039;ve been having the same thoughts.  I&#039;ve always thought Turkey was a voice of sanity in the MENA area, a good ally and an asset to Europe and America, if we would just treat Turkey on an equal basis.  That view took a huge blow when Turkey did not let 4ID invade through their territory into northern Iraq.  It took more blows as Turkey turned increasingly Islamist, in small steps, since then.  It took a major blow when the Turks reacted with their religion, rather than with their instincts for secularism and (relative) freedom given them by Ataturk.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; At this point, I cannot see Turkey as a lost cause.  But I can&#039;t see it in the EU, either.  I&#039;m not certain I can still see Turkey in NATO.&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#39;s funny, but I&#39;ve been having the same thoughts.  I&#39;ve always thought Turkey was a voice of sanity in the MENA area, a good ally and an asset to Europe and America, if we would just treat Turkey on an equal basis.  That view took a huge blow when Turkey did not let 4ID invade through their territory into northern Iraq.  It took more blows as Turkey turned increasingly Islamist, in small steps, since then.  It took a major blow when the Turks reacted with their religion, rather than with their instincts for secularism and (relative) freedom given them by Ataturk.</p>
<p> At this point, I cannot see Turkey as a lost cause.  But I can&#39;t see it in the EU, either.  I&#39;m not certain I can still see Turkey in NATO.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eddie </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html/comment-page-1#comment-13617</link>
		<dc:creator>Eddie </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html#comment-13617</guid>
		<description> &lt;p&gt;How powerful is the Turkish military still? Are they happy about these developments?  I&#039;ve often thought the same about South Korea, can South Korea&#039;s military be happy with the way South Korea&#039;s civilian leadership is endangering the country? But back to Turkey, what is the point of no return for Turkey&#039;s military to jump back into politics in a big way?&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How powerful is the Turkish military still? Are they happy about these developments?  I&#39;ve often thought the same about South Korea, can South Korea&#39;s military be happy with the way South Korea&#39;s civilian leadership is endangering the country? But back to Turkey, what is the point of no return for Turkey&#39;s military to jump back into politics in a big way?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dan tdaxp </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html/comment-page-1#comment-13618</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan tdaxp </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/02/16/turkey-in-europe-or-turks-out-of-europe.html#comment-13618</guid>
		<description> &lt;p&gt;Ataturk should be praised for his handling of colonial disengagement (including the painful population swaps with Greece [1].  Likewise, he oriented Turkey towards Europe and ceased the persecution of folk religions.  He brilliantly used the Communist Party to gain and consolidate power, and then banned it as a threat to his nation.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; However, he was a socialist, and his economic legacy still hobbles Turkey.  His attempts at creating Republican institutions were not that strong, prompting several military &quot;corrections&quot; of governments.  (A military coup is not a mature way to move a government, and so this route is out if Turkey is serious about joining Europe -- unless the coup is defeated.)  His extreme secularism oppressed valid religions, and paved the way for the backlash we are seeing today.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; The current Turkish government has in some ways been very cooperative (pressuring Northern Cyprus to sign an agreement that helped marginalize the Greek south, for example).  However, on both the US alliance and freedom of speech, it has been week.  &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; More vital to the US than getting Turkey in Europe is broadening the EU with low-labor, pro-American states generally.  It is doubtful that Ukraine, say, would be as controversial a choice as Turkey.  A wise strategy might to to cease reinforcing the failure of Turkish europeanization, and instead flow with Ukrainian momentum.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; (Plus, while adding Turkey to Europe would have unknown effects on the Global War on Terrorism, an EUkraine would permanently hobble the Russian threat to the continent.  [2])&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; [1] &lt;a href=&quot;http://catholicgauze.blogspot.com/2006/02/nations-and-nation-states-in-europe.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://catholicgauze.blogspot.com/2006/02/nations-and-nation-states-in-europe.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt; [2] &lt;a href=&quot;http://junkpolitics.blogspirit.com/archive/2006/01/05/putin-turns-germany.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://junkpolitics.blogspirit.com/archive/2006/01/05/putin-turns-germany.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ataturk should be praised for his handling of colonial disengagement (including the painful population swaps with Greece [1].  Likewise, he oriented Turkey towards Europe and ceased the persecution of folk religions.  He brilliantly used the Communist Party to gain and consolidate power, and then banned it as a threat to his nation.</p>
<p> However, he was a socialist, and his economic legacy still hobbles Turkey.  His attempts at creating Republican institutions were not that strong, prompting several military &#8220;corrections&#8221; of governments.  (A military coup is not a mature way to move a government, and so this route is out if Turkey is serious about joining Europe &#8212; unless the coup is defeated.)  His extreme secularism oppressed valid religions, and paved the way for the backlash we are seeing today.</p>
<p> The current Turkish government has in some ways been very cooperative (pressuring Northern Cyprus to sign an agreement that helped marginalize the Greek south, for example).  However, on both the US alliance and freedom of speech, it has been week.  </p>
<p> More vital to the US than getting Turkey in Europe is broadening the EU with low-labor, pro-American states generally.  It is doubtful that Ukraine, say, would be as controversial a choice as Turkey.  A wise strategy might to to cease reinforcing the failure of Turkish europeanization, and instead flow with Ukrainian momentum.</p>
<p> (Plus, while adding Turkey to Europe would have unknown effects on the Global War on Terrorism, an EUkraine would permanently hobble the Russian threat to the continent.  [2])</p>
<p> [1] <a href="http://catholicgauze.blogspot.com/2006/02/nations-and-nation-states-in-europe.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://catholicgauze.blogspot.com/2006/02/nations-and-nation-states-in-europe.html</a><br /> [2] <a href="http://junkpolitics.blogspirit.com/archive/2006/01/05/putin-turns-germany.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://junkpolitics.blogspirit.com/archive/2006/01/05/putin-turns-germany.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

