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	<title>Comments on: Bush with China, Congress against China</title>
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	<description>High-minded, fanatically malthusian perspectives</description>
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		<title>By: tdaxp</title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/10/30/bush-with-china-congress-against-china.html/comment-page-1#comment-197711</link>
		<dc:creator>tdaxp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The current crisis lets us see the world more clearly than we could in the good times: international institutions are durable sources of power [1] and new core countries of the global economy like China, as Eddie says, are primarily interested in their own growth.

We need to make sure our systems allow new core economies to keep growing.

We in America our lucky in that we don&#039;t face threats to our survival like China or India do.  We have the power and safety to try to build institutions and make the world a better place.  We can change the environment so that the self-interested actions of India and China increase global stability.

India and China, by contrast, need to avert a disaster of the 1930s.  (That is, they need to manage the crisis to avoid the cataclysm of a Chinese or Indian FDR taking over.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The current crisis lets us see the world more clearly than we could in the good times: international institutions are durable sources of power [1] and new core countries of the global economy like China, as Eddie says, are primarily interested in their own growth.</p>
<p>We need to make sure our systems allow new core economies to keep growing.</p>
<p>We in America our lucky in that we don&#8217;t face threats to our survival like China or India do.  We have the power and safety to try to build institutions and make the world a better place.  We can change the environment so that the self-interested actions of India and China increase global stability.</p>
<p>India and China, by contrast, need to avert a disaster of the 1930s.  (That is, they need to manage the crisis to avoid the cataclysm of a Chinese or Indian FDR taking over.)</p>
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		<title>By: Eddie</title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/10/30/bush-with-china-congress-against-china.html/comment-page-1#comment-197658</link>
		<dc:creator>Eddie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What strikes me about this story (and the refusal of China to loan money to Pakistan a few months ago, while ramping up investment in Pakistani infrastructure projects benefiting Chinese companies) is how much of the Chinese policy with regard to aid appear less as a &quot;state&quot; decision with the appearance of foreign aid than as investments. Would not America be better off doing the same?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What strikes me about this story (and the refusal of China to loan money to Pakistan a few months ago, while ramping up investment in Pakistani infrastructure projects benefiting Chinese companies) is how much of the Chinese policy with regard to aid appear less as a &#8220;state&#8221; decision with the appearance of foreign aid than as investments. Would not America be better off doing the same?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan tdaxp </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/10/30/bush-with-china-congress-against-china.html/comment-page-1#comment-15191</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan tdaxp </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description> &lt;p&gt;Jayson,&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; I first heard of the &quot;North American Union&quot; from guests, including the founder of the Minuteman Project and Pat Buchanan, on Coast to Coast AM [1,2,3,4].  The phrase is used on the Minutemen&#039;s homepage [6], so has some traction.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; It appears to be their term for some NAFTA coordinating agencies.  On Coast it is identified as the &quot;Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America.&quot; [7] Hearing about it, I have the reaction of an Israeli watching the Egyptian media: &quot;if our side is as powerful as they say, we have nothing to fear!&quot; :-)&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; I wonder how much of the JBS&#039;s &quot;extremist&quot; label comes from the Right&#039;s purge of them [8] and Ayn Rand&#039;s Objectivists [9], and how much come from the Establishment&#039;s (and later, the Left&#039;s) attempts to prevent such a coalition by tarring them.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; [1] &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/06/05.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/06/05.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt; [2] &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/10/23.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/10/23.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt; [3] &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/08/31.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/08/31.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt; [4] &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/06/14.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/06/14.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt; [5] &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/07/24.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/07/24.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt; [6] &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.minutemanproject.com/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.minutemanproject.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt; [7] &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.spp.gov/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.spp.gov/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt; [8] &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society#1960s&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society#1960s&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt; [9] &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/flashback200501050715.asp&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/flashback200501050715.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jayson,</p>
<p> I first heard of the &#8220;North American Union&#8221; from guests, including the founder of the Minuteman Project and Pat Buchanan, on Coast to Coast AM [1,2,3,4].  The phrase is used on the Minutemen&#39;s homepage [6], so has some traction.</p>
<p> It appears to be their term for some NAFTA coordinating agencies.  On Coast it is identified as the &#8220;Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America.&#8221; [7] Hearing about it, I have the reaction of an Israeli watching the Egyptian media: &#8220;if our side is as powerful as they say, we have nothing to fear!&#8221; <img src='http://www.tdaxp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p> I wonder how much of the JBS&#39;s &#8220;extremist&#8221; label comes from the Right&#39;s purge of them [8] and Ayn Rand&#39;s Objectivists [9], and how much come from the Establishment&#39;s (and later, the Left&#39;s) attempts to prevent such a coalition by tarring them.</p>
<p> [1] <a href="http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/06/05.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/06/05.html</a><br /> [2] <a href="http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/10/23.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/10/23.html</a><br /> [3] <a href="http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/08/31.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/08/31.html</a><br /> [4] <a href="http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/06/14.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/06/14.html</a><br /> [5] <a href="http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/07/24.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2006/07/24.html</a><br /> [6] <a href="http://www.minutemanproject.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.minutemanproject.com/</a><br /> [7] <a href="http://www.spp.gov/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.spp.gov/</a><br /> [8] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society#1960s" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society#1960s</a><br /> [9] <a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/flashback200501050715.asp" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/flashback200501050715.asp</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dan tdaxp </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/10/30/bush-with-china-congress-against-china.html/comment-page-1#comment-15189</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan tdaxp </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description> &lt;p&gt;Jayson --  hmm, seems similar to those stereotypical campus left-wing groups: they aren&#039;t competing for power in the system, just membership with each other.  Thus they are hyper-sensitive to minimizing each other&#039;s influence, while not doing much to change actual government policies.  (Likewise shades of the Judean People&#039;s Front... [1])&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; It is impressive the Birchers were early adopters of the internet.  They must have some clever folks.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; [1] &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python%27s_Life_of_Brian#Analysis&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python%27s_Life_of_Brian#Analysis&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jayson &#8212;  hmm, seems similar to those stereotypical campus left-wing groups: they aren&#39;t competing for power in the system, just membership with each other.  Thus they are hyper-sensitive to minimizing each other&#39;s influence, while not doing much to change actual government policies.  (Likewise shades of the Judean People&#39;s Front&#8230; [1])</p>
<p> It is impressive the Birchers were early adopters of the internet.  They must have some clever folks.</p>
<p> [1] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python%27s_Life_of_Brian#Analysis" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python%27s_Life_of_Brian#Analysis</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jayson </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/10/30/bush-with-china-congress-against-china.html/comment-page-1#comment-15190</link>
		<dc:creator>Jayson </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description> &lt;p&gt;Well, the Birchers certainly have some staying power. Gotta hand it to that candy businessman.  &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; &quot;Back in the day&quot;---around the time I first became aware of &quot;the Internet&quot; (I developed an interest in American extremist movements. I&#039;m unable to recall *exactly* why I developed this curiousity, but reflecting on it *now,* I *think* it might&#039;ve been an outgrowth of all the 1960s nostalgia during the late 1980s...what with the &quot;romantic&quot; portrayals of the campus left and counterculture, and those crappy Vietnam war movies (and the good ones too), etc.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; Well, the JBS is considered an &quot;extremist&quot; group, so I looked into them--I must say that the ancient scrolls I uncovered in my then-campus library made for some interesting reading--to think that this group posed *such* a &quot;danger&quot; to American democracy, that they were the harbingers of fascism, etc. OK, OK, I *exagerrate*--but much of these readings weren&#039;t *that* far off.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; I haven&#039;t looked at the JBS website in awhile; I try to keep the proverbial &quot;open mind&quot; about anything and everything, but while they make an occassional teresting point or 2, they--overall-- seem a bit too &quot;paleo&quot; for me.&lt;br /&gt; I was impressed with their site then, and looking at it now, I&#039;m still impressed--it&#039;s even better than it looked the last time I visited. &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; Hey, on that website they&#039;re talking about something that would seem close to your heart--they&#039;re making noise about a coming &quot;North American Union&quot;--and **critical** noise at that.  They hate it. But their imagined &quot;flag&quot; for this supposedly coming entity inadvertantly makes the concept look &quot;attractive.&quot; (It&#039;s a cool looking flag, IMNSHO.)&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; Must admit I&#039;m &quot;against&quot; it too--i.e., if it&#039;s going to end up as--as these Birchers seem to be implying--a &quot;collective&quot; enterprise, perhaps akin to the EU. If there&#039;s going to be a united North America, we should hope for a Real-Life version of the DTL USA.  (But of course, that&#039;ll *never* happen...)&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the Birchers certainly have some staying power. Gotta hand it to that candy businessman.  </p>
<p> &#8220;Back in the day&#8221;&#8212;around the time I first became aware of &#8220;the Internet&#8221; (I developed an interest in American extremist movements. I&#39;m unable to recall *exactly* why I developed this curiousity, but reflecting on it *now,* I *think* it might&#39;ve been an outgrowth of all the 1960s nostalgia during the late 1980s&#8230;what with the &#8220;romantic&#8221; portrayals of the campus left and counterculture, and those crappy Vietnam war movies (and the good ones too), etc.</p>
<p> Well, the JBS is considered an &#8220;extremist&#8221; group, so I looked into them&#8211;I must say that the ancient scrolls I uncovered in my then-campus library made for some interesting reading&#8211;to think that this group posed *such* a &#8220;danger&#8221; to American democracy, that they were the harbingers of fascism, etc. OK, OK, I *exagerrate*&#8211;but much of these readings weren&#39;t *that* far off.</p>
<p> I haven&#39;t looked at the JBS website in awhile; I try to keep the proverbial &#8220;open mind&#8221; about anything and everything, but while they make an occassional teresting point or 2, they&#8211;overall&#8211; seem a bit too &#8220;paleo&#8221; for me.<br /> I was impressed with their site then, and looking at it now, I&#39;m still impressed&#8211;it&#39;s even better than it looked the last time I visited. </p>
<p> Hey, on that website they&#39;re talking about something that would seem close to your heart&#8211;they&#39;re making noise about a coming &#8220;North American Union&#8221;&#8211;and **critical** noise at that.  They hate it. But their imagined &#8220;flag&#8221; for this supposedly coming entity inadvertantly makes the concept look &#8220;attractive.&#8221; (It&#39;s a cool looking flag, IMNSHO.)</p>
<p> Must admit I&#39;m &#8220;against&#8221; it too&#8211;i.e., if it&#39;s going to end up as&#8211;as these Birchers seem to be implying&#8211;a &#8220;collective&#8221; enterprise, perhaps akin to the EU. If there&#39;s going to be a united North America, we should hope for a Real-Life version of the DTL USA.  (But of course, that&#39;ll *never* happen&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Jayson </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/10/30/bush-with-china-congress-against-china.html/comment-page-1#comment-15184</link>
		<dc:creator>Jayson </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description> &lt;p&gt;Well, for whatever its worth, the &quot;Nyquisters&quot; should find these developments  interesting...&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, for whatever its worth, the &#8220;Nyquisters&#8221; should find these developments  interesting&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dan tdaxp </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/10/30/bush-with-china-congress-against-china.html/comment-page-1#comment-15185</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan tdaxp </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description> &lt;p&gt;&quot;Nyquisters&quot;?&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Nyquisters&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Jayson </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/10/30/bush-with-china-congress-against-china.html/comment-page-1#comment-15186</link>
		<dc:creator>Jayson </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description> &lt;p&gt;Sorry--I mean to say, J.R. Nyquist and his readership--to judge from the message board on his website, he does seem to have quite a readership. (Made up the term &quot;Nyquisters&quot;; never heard them refer to themselves by any label.)&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry&#8211;I mean to say, J.R. Nyquist and his readership&#8211;to judge from the message board on his website, he does seem to have quite a readership. (Made up the term &#8220;Nyquisters&#8221;; never heard them refer to themselves by any label.)</p>
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		<title>By: Dan tdaxp </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/10/30/bush-with-china-congress-against-china.html/comment-page-1#comment-15187</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan tdaxp </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description> &lt;p&gt;Ah -- it appears to be a reborn version of the John Birch Society [1].  I wonder if there are any factional disputes, as the JBS is still around... [2]&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; [1] &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jrnyquist.com/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.jrnyquist.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt; [2] &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jbs.org/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.jbs.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah &#8212; it appears to be a reborn version of the John Birch Society [1].  I wonder if there are any factional disputes, as the JBS is still around&#8230; [2]</p>
<p> [1] <a href="http://www.jrnyquist.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.jrnyquist.com/</a><br /> [2] <a href="http://www.jbs.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.jbs.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jayson </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/10/30/bush-with-china-congress-against-china.html/comment-page-1#comment-15188</link>
		<dc:creator>Jayson </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2006/10/30/bush-with-china-congress-against-china.html#comment-15188</guid>
		<description> &lt;p&gt;&quot;Apparently&quot; there is. Sometime &quot;back in the day&quot; there was a Nyquist column that, in a sidenote, was critical of some odd Bircher conspiracy theory. This was way back--I dunno if the link is still on his site, and I&#039;m too lazy right now to search for it. Don&#039;t recall is he was ever a member, though (but I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if he [or any of his readership] either are or were.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; Hmm...the Birchers. When I first trawled through the Net/Web *years* ago, one of the biggest surprises for me was learning that the Birchers had an online presence. (In fact, until that moment, I didn&#039;t know that they *still* existed).&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; It was an &quot;odd&quot; thing--I wasn&#039;t surprised to learn that, say, the CPUSA had an online presence, but there was &quot;something&quot; about the JBS that just didn&#039;t--in my mind, anyway--or &quot;shouldn&#039;t&quot;--fit with the notion of a website.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; I dunno--maybe it&#039;s just me...&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Apparently&#8221; there is. Sometime &#8220;back in the day&#8221; there was a Nyquist column that, in a sidenote, was critical of some odd Bircher conspiracy theory. This was way back&#8211;I dunno if the link is still on his site, and I&#39;m too lazy right now to search for it. Don&#39;t recall is he was ever a member, though (but I wouldn&#39;t be surprised if he [or any of his readership] either are or were.</p>
<p> Hmm&#8230;the Birchers. When I first trawled through the Net/Web *years* ago, one of the biggest surprises for me was learning that the Birchers had an online presence. (In fact, until that moment, I didn&#39;t know that they *still* existed).</p>
<p> It was an &#8220;odd&#8221; thing&#8211;I wasn&#39;t surprised to learn that, say, the CPUSA had an online presence, but there was &#8220;something&#8221; about the JBS that just didn&#39;t&#8211;in my mind, anyway&#8211;or &#8220;shouldn&#39;t&#8221;&#8211;fit with the notion of a website.</p>
<p> I dunno&#8211;maybe it&#39;s just me&#8230;</p>
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