In any case, I just commented again by paraphrasing some points and trying to copy in sections from my last comment, with the same result. So I'll keep it to myself, thank-you very much!

Even supposing that you're right as to it's true interpretation (I'm no Biblical scholar, perhaps in the Greek it's meaning is clearer) the fact is that that verse has in the past been interpreted to mean that Jews were born of the devil. The fact that it is no longer interpreted that way (whether due to ignoring it or reinterpreting it) shows that Western Christians can either ignore or reinterpret their texts to suit modern values. The Muslim world as a whole is as of yet unable to do that. That was my general point.

Great conversation!

The Gospel of John is often antijudaic. John seems to have dispaired of the dream of Jesus “automatically” being regarded as a Jewish Messiah in the manner that Samuel, say, was “automatically” regarded as a Jewish prophet.

(This also means that John the Baptist as the last prophet, the Return of Moses, the Return of Elijah, would also not be recognized. As Christianity was for all people, this meant that the distinctly “Jewish” aspects of Christ would be marginalized for thousands of years — a depressing thought for an early Jewish Christian!)

However, the Gospel of John is not at all antisemetic. St. John was antagonistic to judaism as a religion, but not the Jews as a race. Indeed, an antisemitic interpretation is nonsensical, as Jesus and all of the Disciples are Jewish!

Antisemitism as we know it — an antagonistic attitude toward biological Jews — is a very modern phenomenon. I'm not aware of it existing before the 19th century.

a517dogg's point that texts can be reinterpreted is a valuable one. We saw among the German antisemites a dangerous “modernization” that included antisemitism. The same development is occuring in the Arab world.

I disagree, and I am less hopeful that you. anti-Semitism isn't something that Christianity learned to ignore — it's something that appeared in the nineteenth century. Mideval Chrisian antagonism towards Jews came from their denial of the Savior, instead of their blood. Racism is a modern sin.

Curtis,

Will you post what you wrote over at Phatic Communion? (If it makes you feel any better, in one of their messages blogspirit said that your comments, in particular, have a high frequency of spam-typical phrases. )

I was more talking about the anti-Semitism in the Bible and Koran – most Christians ignore the bit where Jesus says “you Jews are the spawn of Satan” (probably because of the Holocaust) but apparently the bits of the Koran that tell Muslims to kill infidels are read regularly.

“Ye [Jews] are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.”

Just proves my point that Christians have learned to ignore the sillier parts of the Bible. ô¿ô

[1] http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/john8.html

It's pretty fascinating to me how the same individual can study twenty-first century physics, engineering, or medicine, while retaining ideas hundreds if not thousands of years old on the role of women, religion, politics, etc.