Comments on: The Libby Clemency: Men of Law, Men of Principle, Men of Cash

By: Curtis Gale Weeks

Curtis Gale Weeks — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

When did loyalty become fidelity? [1]

I think you're whitewashing this: Demons (them; note the "dem") and Angels (Us, who have principled angles.)

[1] http://www.fifthgeneration.phaticcommunion.com/archives/2007/03/loyalty_vs_fidelity.php

By: Steve French

Steve French — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

And as a counter point, see George Ryan, crooked governor of Illinois
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Ryan

By: Steve Pampinella

Steve Pampinella — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

And also Jack Ambramoff, Bob Ney, and Tom DeLay for that matter. Solid upstanding citizens.

Men of principle, sure. But what if those principles (like a fourth branch of government allowing for executive privilege claims without being in the executive branch) are contrary to the Republic itself?

By: a517dogg

a517dogg — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I doubt Bush saved Libby's ass out of principle. I believe Bush saved Libby due to Libby's ability to blackmail. That's not exactly a principle.

To Steve Pampinella's list, I would add
Conrad Burns
Jerry Lewis
Katherine Harris
Crazy Curt Weldon
John Doolittle
Duke Cunningham

Besides, Democrats haven't held any power for so long, there really hasn't been much of an opportunity for any greed-based corruption.

By: Dan tdaxp

Dan tdaxp — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

"But what if those principles... are contrary to the Republic itself?"

The point exactly. Wealth tends to be structurally conservative, while ideology is structurally radical. Which is safer? How much does the actual implementation --- who gives money and for what, who spreads ideas and for what -- matter?

By: Dan tdaxp

Dan tdaxp — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

The secondary source for the central claim in this post is "Understanding American Government" by Welch, Gruhl, Comer, & Rigdon, page 309. Without the text in front of me I am unable to provide a primary reference, though I assume it ties in with the researchs agenda of J. Peters and S. Welch [1], who are both interested in the study of corruption.

The authors use the phrases "honest graft" to describe the Democratic Party style of corruption, which originates with (Democratic) Tammany Hall official George W. Plunkitt. [2]

[1] http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=j.+peters+s.+welch+corruption&btnG=Search
[2] http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5030/

By: sonofsamphm1c

sonofsamphm1c — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

It's a stretch to tie Tammany Hall into a modern discussion.

In 1860 most Democrats in the South were called Confederates. Now a great many progeny of the Confederates are Republicans.

Was Ulysses Grant a Tammany Hall Democrat?

By: Aaron

Aaron — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

It's been a while since there was a good 'groaner' post here. Thanks for the update.

By: Jeffrey James

Jeffrey James — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

http://bani.anime.net/o_rly.jpg

By: Eddie

Eddie — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I'll take good ol fashioned greed over ideological nonsense any day. The former can be rather easily spotted and prosecuted with patience and oversight. The latter is far more insidious and less revealing to the common witness.