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	<title>Comments on: Review of &quot;The Rise of Christianity&quot; by Rodney Stark</title>
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	<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/07/23/review-of-the-rise-of-christianity-by-rodney-stark.html</link>
	<description>All of us against the machine</description>
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		<title>By: Lexington Green </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/07/23/review-of-the-rise-of-christianity-by-rodney-stark.html/comment-page-1#comment-17464</link>
		<dc:creator>Lexington Green </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/07/23/review-of-the-rise-of-christianity-by-rodney-stark.html#comment-17464</guid>
		<description> &lt;p&gt;You should send Stark the list of links to your Jesusism-Paulism series:&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rodneystark.com/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.rodneystark.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; I bet he would find them interesting.&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should send Stark the list of links to your Jesusism-Paulism series:</p>
<p> <a href="http://www.rodneystark.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.rodneystark.com/</a></p>
<p> I bet he would find them interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/07/23/review-of-the-rise-of-christianity-by-rodney-stark.html/comment-page-1#comment-17465</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description> &lt;p&gt;My girlfriend&#039;s Catholic and I&#039;m atheist - I&#039;m always looking for books I can give her for birthday, Christmas, etc., that can bridge the divide!  This looks interesting.&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My girlfriend&#39;s Catholic and I&#39;m atheist &#8211; I&#39;m always looking for books I can give her for birthday, Christmas, etc., that can bridge the divide!  This looks interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan tdaxp </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/07/23/review-of-the-rise-of-christianity-by-rodney-stark.html/comment-page-1#comment-17466</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan tdaxp </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description> &lt;p&gt;Adrian,&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; I think it would be!  The book is a mainstream academic work, but has been positively reviewed by catholicity.com as well [1].  An excerpt is available online from PBS. [2]&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; PS: May she convert you soon! :-)&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; [1] &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.catholicity.com/mccloskey/riseofchristianity.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.catholicity.com/mccloskey/riseofchristianity.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt; [2] &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/why/starksociology.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/why/starksociology.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adrian,</p>
<p> I think it would be!  The book is a mainstream academic work, but has been positively reviewed by catholicity.com as well [1].  An excerpt is available online from PBS. [2]</p>
<p> PS: May she convert you soon! <img src='http://www.tdaxp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p> [1] <a href="http://www.catholicity.com/mccloskey/riseofchristianity.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.catholicity.com/mccloskey/riseofchristianity.html</a><br /> [2] <a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/why/starksociology.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/why/starksociology.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Lexington Green </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/07/23/review-of-the-rise-of-christianity-by-rodney-stark.html/comment-page-1#comment-17467</link>
		<dc:creator>Lexington Green </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/07/23/review-of-the-rise-of-christianity-by-rodney-stark.html#comment-17467</guid>
		<description> &lt;p&gt;Here is a review of the Stark book which may be of interest:&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.catholicity.com/mccloskey/riseofchristianity.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.catholicity.com/mccloskey/riseofchristianity.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; It is certainly a good book for a Catholic to read.&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a review of the Stark book which may be of interest:</p>
<p> <a href="http://www.catholicity.com/mccloskey/riseofchristianity.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.catholicity.com/mccloskey/riseofchristianity.html</a></p>
<p> It is certainly a good book for a Catholic to read.</p>
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		<title>By: Christianity </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/07/23/review-of-the-rise-of-christianity-by-rodney-stark.html/comment-page-1#comment-17468</link>
		<dc:creator>Christianity </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description> &lt;p&gt;This is the first time I herd about The rise of Christianity by  Rodney stark  I really thrilled while reading the short story. Even I feel the same that  the author feel. Rise is an excellent sociological history of the first Christian centuries and Thank you for providing valuable information.&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the first time I herd about The rise of Christianity by  Rodney stark  I really thrilled while reading the short story. Even I feel the same that  the author feel. Rise is an excellent sociological history of the first Christian centuries and Thank you for providing valuable information.</p>
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		<title>By:  Michael </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/07/23/review-of-the-rise-of-christianity-by-rodney-stark.html/comment-page-1#comment-17469</link>
		<dc:creator> Michael </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description> &lt;p&gt;Heelers? No other dog breed provides a sense of belonging? That&#039;s going to be a surprise to the retrievers, bull terriers and collies of my acquaintance. . .*grin*&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heelers? No other dog breed provides a sense of belonging? That&#39;s going to be a surprise to the retrievers, bull terriers and collies of my acquaintance. . .*grin*</p>
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		<title>By:  Seerov </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/07/23/review-of-the-rise-of-christianity-by-rodney-stark.html/comment-page-1#comment-17470</link>
		<dc:creator> Seerov </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/07/23/review-of-the-rise-of-christianity-by-rodney-stark.html#comment-17470</guid>
		<description> &lt;p&gt;I have to admit much ignorance when it comes to the history of Christianity.  I know more about the history of Islam and I was raised as a sort of Christian.  Perhaps I should buy this book and put it with the rest of my &quot;I&#039;ll read this later&quot; stack?  I have so many things to read as is, but for some reason, I keep buying more books?  Maybe book buying for me has become similar to those women in NYC who can&#039;t stop buying handbags or shoes?  &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; Anyway, to those who have read it, was Christianity &quot;spread by the sword?&quot;  It would seem as if Christianity was spread rather peacefully until it got to Rome. I&#039;ve had discussions with Muslims who claim that Islam was spread peacefully and that Islam was very &quot;tolerant.&quot; The early spread of Islam was somewhat tolerant, however, I can hardly consider conquest to be &quot;peaceful&quot; no matter how &quot;tolerant&quot; it was towards Jews and Christians.  This &quot;tolerance&quot; was probably more out of necessity than anything else.  At the same time, these Muslims say &quot;Christianity was the religion spread by the sword.&quot;  It would seem as if early Christianity was spread peacully throughout lower class social networks and later (Rome) was spread via the sword (The rest of Europe).  Islam appears to have been spread by conquest but those who were conquered were not forced to convert (Just pay taxes to their Muslim overlords).  &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; So, what do you think?  Was Christianity &quot;spread by the sword.&quot;  Maybe? Sometimes? Yes? NO?&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to admit much ignorance when it comes to the history of Christianity.  I know more about the history of Islam and I was raised as a sort of Christian.  Perhaps I should buy this book and put it with the rest of my &#8220;I&#39;ll read this later&#8221; stack?  I have so many things to read as is, but for some reason, I keep buying more books?  Maybe book buying for me has become similar to those women in NYC who can&#39;t stop buying handbags or shoes?  </p>
<p> Anyway, to those who have read it, was Christianity &#8220;spread by the sword?&#8221;  It would seem as if Christianity was spread rather peacefully until it got to Rome. I&#39;ve had discussions with Muslims who claim that Islam was spread peacefully and that Islam was very &#8220;tolerant.&#8221; The early spread of Islam was somewhat tolerant, however, I can hardly consider conquest to be &#8220;peaceful&#8221; no matter how &#8220;tolerant&#8221; it was towards Jews and Christians.  This &#8220;tolerance&#8221; was probably more out of necessity than anything else.  At the same time, these Muslims say &#8220;Christianity was the religion spread by the sword.&#8221;  It would seem as if early Christianity was spread peacully throughout lower class social networks and later (Rome) was spread via the sword (The rest of Europe).  Islam appears to have been spread by conquest but those who were conquered were not forced to convert (Just pay taxes to their Muslim overlords).  </p>
<p> So, what do you think?  Was Christianity &#8220;spread by the sword.&#8221;  Maybe? Sometimes? Yes? NO?</p>
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		<title>By:  Anasko </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/07/23/review-of-the-rise-of-christianity-by-rodney-stark.html/comment-page-1#comment-17472</link>
		<dc:creator> Anasko </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description> &lt;p&gt;Seerov, It depends which historical period we choose to consider. Christianity began as a very marginal religious movement that was not welcomed or tolerated in the Roman Empire. It could not possibly have been &quot;spread by a sword&quot; in the beginning because:&lt;br /&gt; 1. It was not a political movement and early Christians were not interested in politics but in religious world views.&lt;br /&gt; 2. They definitely did not have access to an army. They were not well organized and were in small numbers spread throughout different parts of the Roman Empire. Since Rome was the center of the Empire and had a large population, many of the Christians lived there, but they were a very minimal percentage of the total population of Rome and were marginal groups, who were outcasts of their own society.&lt;br /&gt; 3. Christianity was not initially &quot;spread by a sword.&quot; The number of Christians seem to have grown over time, but the religion itself was not officially tolerated and recognized until 313. &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; - If you are looking to compare it with initial spread of Islam, you must consider that Islam originated in a very different social and political environment in the 7th c. which is 600 years later. &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; While Early Christianity was not &quot;spread by a sword&quot; to start with, later on as it became a legalized religion with appointed religious authorities, this had changed. &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; Papacy in charge of a church even had its own army. Also it used assistance of secular rulers and their armies in going on to Crusades which were partially meant for winning converts and capturing the city of Jerusalem, (this was a lot later in the 11th c.) Christian warriors who went on Crusades did so for variety of personal reasons: &lt;br /&gt; - some did so because they were paid to do so, often in land or looting&lt;br /&gt; - others because they were promised a guaranteed salvation by the Pope and were convinced that it was a will of god, &lt;br /&gt; - and there were also those who were influenced by the Papacy and speeches describing their fellow Christians being marginalized and discriminated against in foreign territories who were in need of a defence. &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; Papacy and secular ruler involved also had their agenda, - financial gain from looting goods, and political advances through acquiring new lands.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; - Something we must consider is that Christianity originated as religious movement, and only later it became associated with politics and armies. Islam, originally began as both religious and political movement. Muhammad was both political and religious leader to start with, while Jesus was a religious leader, or at least his first followers were exclusively religion oriented leaders (not much of actual factual data is available about the figure of Jesus, other then possibly bias literature created by early christians). &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; Interestingly, around the historical time period when Islam originated, Christianity was already becoming a religion that was associated with politics and was not tolerant of Jews, heretics or other faiths.&lt;br /&gt; - It appears to me that when a religion is associated with politics and governing body, and is a type of religion that seeks new converts (some religions don&#039;t), and has control over army it had demonstrated to be &quot;spread by a sword&quot;, in both cases of Christianity and Islam starting approximately from the middle and late Medieval Period. (600-1300)&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; I hope this helps&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seerov, It depends which historical period we choose to consider. Christianity began as a very marginal religious movement that was not welcomed or tolerated in the Roman Empire. It could not possibly have been &#8220;spread by a sword&#8221; in the beginning because:<br /> 1. It was not a political movement and early Christians were not interested in politics but in religious world views.<br /> 2. They definitely did not have access to an army. They were not well organized and were in small numbers spread throughout different parts of the Roman Empire. Since Rome was the center of the Empire and had a large population, many of the Christians lived there, but they were a very minimal percentage of the total population of Rome and were marginal groups, who were outcasts of their own society.<br /> 3. Christianity was not initially &#8220;spread by a sword.&#8221; The number of Christians seem to have grown over time, but the religion itself was not officially tolerated and recognized until 313. </p>
<p> &#8211; If you are looking to compare it with initial spread of Islam, you must consider that Islam originated in a very different social and political environment in the 7th c. which is 600 years later. </p>
<p> While Early Christianity was not &#8220;spread by a sword&#8221; to start with, later on as it became a legalized religion with appointed religious authorities, this had changed. </p>
<p> Papacy in charge of a church even had its own army. Also it used assistance of secular rulers and their armies in going on to Crusades which were partially meant for winning converts and capturing the city of Jerusalem, (this was a lot later in the 11th c.) Christian warriors who went on Crusades did so for variety of personal reasons: <br /> &#8211; some did so because they were paid to do so, often in land or looting<br /> &#8211; others because they were promised a guaranteed salvation by the Pope and were convinced that it was a will of god, <br /> &#8211; and there were also those who were influenced by the Papacy and speeches describing their fellow Christians being marginalized and discriminated against in foreign territories who were in need of a defence. </p>
<p> Papacy and secular ruler involved also had their agenda, &#8211; financial gain from looting goods, and political advances through acquiring new lands.</p>
<p> &#8211; Something we must consider is that Christianity originated as religious movement, and only later it became associated with politics and armies. Islam, originally began as both religious and political movement. Muhammad was both political and religious leader to start with, while Jesus was a religious leader, or at least his first followers were exclusively religion oriented leaders (not much of actual factual data is available about the figure of Jesus, other then possibly bias literature created by early christians). </p>
<p> Interestingly, around the historical time period when Islam originated, Christianity was already becoming a religion that was associated with politics and was not tolerant of Jews, heretics or other faiths.<br /> &#8211; It appears to me that when a religion is associated with politics and governing body, and is a type of religion that seeks new converts (some religions don&#39;t), and has control over army it had demonstrated to be &#8220;spread by a sword&#8221;, in both cases of Christianity and Islam starting approximately from the middle and late Medieval Period. (600-1300)</p>
<p> I hope this helps</p>
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		<title>By:  Michael </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/07/23/review-of-the-rise-of-christianity-by-rodney-stark.html/comment-page-1#comment-17471</link>
		<dc:creator> Michael </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description> &lt;p&gt;I seem to recall reading someplace that the spread of Islam into sub-saharan Africa was done with missionaries.&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I seem to recall reading someplace that the spread of Islam into sub-saharan Africa was done with missionaries.</p>
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