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	<title>Comments on: Pre-Modern Wars on a Pre-Modern Continent</title>
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	<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/09/06/pre-modern-wars-on-a-pre-modern-continent.html</link>
	<description>All of us against the machine</description>
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		<title>By:  Steve Pampinella </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/09/06/pre-modern-wars-on-a-pre-modern-continent.html/comment-page-1#comment-17930</link>
		<dc:creator> Steve Pampinella </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/09/06/pre-modern-wars-on-a-pre-modern-continent.html#comment-17930</guid>
		<description> &lt;p&gt;&quot;The short answer is No, the African wars are not 4GW. The African wars tend not to be state-centered, but that is because they are before-the-state, not after-the-state.&quot;&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; My thoughts exactly, and this is an important qualification of Generations of War theory I had earlier overlooked.  I tried explaining Generations to a professor of mine, and he promptly tore me apart.  There are limits to the explanatory power of the theory, and the fact that it is state-centered is probably the most significant limitation.  &lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; WRT to culture, the problem in Africa is that state-building strategies have instrumentally used culture and the perception of common ethnicity as a means to the end of political mobilization.  Certainly this strategy of political homogenization has been used in the past, even by early modern Western states, but never with the intensity seen in Africa.  And as you rightly point out, education is certainly not on the agenda of these elites, as they consistently avoid the provision of any form of public goods.&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The short answer is No, the African wars are not 4GW. The African wars tend not to be state-centered, but that is because they are before-the-state, not after-the-state.&#8221;</p>
<p> My thoughts exactly, and this is an important qualification of Generations of War theory I had earlier overlooked.  I tried explaining Generations to a professor of mine, and he promptly tore me apart.  There are limits to the explanatory power of the theory, and the fact that it is state-centered is probably the most significant limitation.  </p>
<p> WRT to culture, the problem in Africa is that state-building strategies have instrumentally used culture and the perception of common ethnicity as a means to the end of political mobilization.  Certainly this strategy of political homogenization has been used in the past, even by early modern Western states, but never with the intensity seen in Africa.  And as you rightly point out, education is certainly not on the agenda of these elites, as they consistently avoid the provision of any form of public goods.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan tdaxp </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/09/06/pre-modern-wars-on-a-pre-modern-continent.html/comment-page-1#comment-17931</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan tdaxp </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description> &lt;p&gt;Do you remember how your professor tore xGW apart?  Few things are more valuable than a calm and logical refutation of what you believe!&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; Agreed on the lack of public goods in Africa.  It&#039;s a very hateful [1] continent.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; [1] &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/03/09/christian-love-public-goods-and-open-source.html&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/03/09/christian-love-public-goods-and-open-source.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you remember how your professor tore xGW apart?  Few things are more valuable than a calm and logical refutation of what you believe!</p>
<p> Agreed on the lack of public goods in Africa.  It&#39;s a very hateful [1] continent.</p>
<p> [1] <a href="http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/03/09/christian-love-public-goods-and-open-source.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/03/09/christian-love-public-goods-and-open-source.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Phil </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/09/06/pre-modern-wars-on-a-pre-modern-continent.html/comment-page-1#comment-17932</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/09/06/pre-modern-wars-on-a-pre-modern-continent.html#comment-17932</guid>
		<description> &lt;p&gt;For certain parts of Africa this may hold true, but many of Africa&#039;s wars, if not examples of 4GW, certainly had strong 4GW elements.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; Examples: the defeat of apartheid in South Africa through the mobilization of international networks.  Driving out the Americans in Somalia, and the establishment of Islamic rule more recently.  Several of the anti-colonial struggles, not just Algeria, and the ongoing independence movement in Western Sahara.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; There are also examples of 2GW and 3GW in Africa, eg Libya vs. Chad, Ethiopia vs. Eritrea.  Can&#039;t think of any 1GW though.&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For certain parts of Africa this may hold true, but many of Africa&#39;s wars, if not examples of 4GW, certainly had strong 4GW elements.</p>
<p> Examples: the defeat of apartheid in South Africa through the mobilization of international networks.  Driving out the Americans in Somalia, and the establishment of Islamic rule more recently.  Several of the anti-colonial struggles, not just Algeria, and the ongoing independence movement in Western Sahara.</p>
<p> There are also examples of 2GW and 3GW in Africa, eg Libya vs. Chad, Ethiopia vs. Eritrea.  Can&#39;t think of any 1GW though.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan tdaxp </title>
		<link>http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/09/06/pre-modern-wars-on-a-pre-modern-continent.html/comment-page-1#comment-17933</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan tdaxp </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/09/06/pre-modern-wars-on-a-pre-modern-continent.html#comment-17933</guid>
		<description> &lt;p&gt;Phil,&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; In areas run as European states -- featuring intensive civilizing missions and elite political control -- it was possible to organize complex political movements.    This is the Algerian (formerly French) and South African (formerly Afrikan) experience.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; Certainly the trend in warfare, like in many other things, in Africa is that the farther you get from European control, the less civilized you become.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt; Somalia begs the question of whether imported Arab culture is likewise able to create higher-order wars.  I&#039;m not sure how you could distinguish the early-1990s fighting in Somalia from gang warfare, however.&lt;/p&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil,</p>
<p> In areas run as European states &#8212; featuring intensive civilizing missions and elite political control &#8212; it was possible to organize complex political movements.    This is the Algerian (formerly French) and South African (formerly Afrikan) experience.</p>
<p> Certainly the trend in warfare, like in many other things, in Africa is that the farther you get from European control, the less civilized you become.</p>
<p> Somalia begs the question of whether imported Arab culture is likewise able to create higher-order wars.  I&#39;m not sure how you could distinguish the early-1990s fighting in Somalia from gang warfare, however.</p>
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