Comments on: Pre-Modern Wars, and theocratic Peaces

By: Dan tdaxp

Dan tdaxp — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Adrian,

What's the point of the excerpt?

ElamBend,

The New York Times editorial goes off into some feminist theory, but what I wanted to focus on was the fact of genocide-scale wars in America -- that is, premodern wars of 0GWs -- and the combination of social solidarity and economic development that allowed us to win and thrive.

Of course, the Virginia colony is another history, with another method. Religious law is neither necessary for sufficient. But it's a tool that be useful, either in Bostonor in Baghdad.

By: Adrian

Adrian — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

"Ahmed, who has a Shiite father and a Sunni mother, considers himself a secular Shiite, and, in his view, the religious militias want to force people like him out of Baghdad. “Americans are the safe house for the whole situation in Iraq,” he said. “Once they say they are going to withdraw, the whole country will become a hell.” He went on, “I imagine that no Sunnis will be in Baghdad at all. Baghdad will be only for the Shiite man with the long beard and black imama—the turban. The Americans are representing the taboos, just like ‘Lord of the Flies.’ I imagine the Shiites will be just like that if the Americans have to withdraw. Who can fight will fight, who must leave will leave.” He added, “Those who are weak, who are trying to avoid the savagery, those who are at the edge of being eaten by the Shiite specifically—that will be the end point, that will be their doomsday. The plan, as we hear it, is to make Baghdad empty of Sunnis.”"

George Packer

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/09/17/070917fa_fact_packer?printable=true

By: ElamBend

ElamBend — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I don't buy it. Increased Puritanism was not needed to protect the New England colonies and in fact the war lead to a drastic reduction in the efforts to convert the Indians. The identity that arose was one of self-sufficiency and, possibly, Americaness. The colonists had no help from England so had to rely on themselves and their Indian allies. Without a doubt religion fortified them, but the rigors of Puritianism was not a requirement. Perhaps its legacy as an embattled religion helped, but that was separate from its social restrictions.

The author of the NYT piece is full of it, and is trying to use Victorian revisionism as an indication of some kind of feeling of emasculation from the war. The war did have profound effects upon New England and America, but not as the author explains it. First of all, it basically ended the experiment in living with the Indians instead of separately. (The Cherokee and their baptists friends would come close, though). It established an us versus them mentality and a streak of independence in New England that had reverberations a century later something that did not require the puritanical ruleset. Iraq does not need sharia. It's new ruleset is "protect your neighborhood" and "don't let outsiders tell you what to believe."

To learn more "The Name of War" is good:
http://www.amazon.com/Name-War-Philips-American-Identity/dp/0375702628/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-4727198-9095069?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189219696&sr=8-1

Also, Metacomb likely changed his name for the war to his Name of War. It is unknown, but it may have been Wewesewamut.

By: Adrian

Adrian — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

The excerpt seems to show that Baghdad is indeed becoming a "cultural region". Some Shia version of Sharia is likely to be the defacto law.

"Baghdad will be only for the Shiite man with the long beard and black imama—the turban."

By: Dan tdaxp

Dan tdaxp — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Adrian — gotcha. Good supporting evidence!

By: Andrew

Andrew — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Dan,

I like your analogy to the New England colonies. However, I will dispute your assumption that the Shia cultural region will be characterized by a pro-market version of Sharia. As far as I know, Sharia everywhere it has been instituted is fundamentally anti-market, even in Shia communities.

By: Dan tdaxp

Dan tdaxp — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Andrew,

Could you say more? How is the Koran anti-market, and particularly how is Shia sharia thus so??

Not only was the Koran devised among a merchant population and pays special attention to the role of contracts, Islamic charities provided a true civil society for hundreds of years (until they were abolished by the Arab national secularists).