Religious Intolerance

Congratulations to Adam for putting into words something I have been thinking (but unable to say well) for a bit now. The Texan Raid against the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is an example of religious persecution. Combining the unsubstantiated allegations of the Crystal Gale Magnum hoax with mass persecution of a religious minority, the attack on the FLDS Church will probably be seen as the disaster it is for decades to come.

The Metropolis Times: El Dorado Raid
At the end of last march, someone claiming to be a 16-year old girl named “Sarah” called a local crisis center, claiming she had been sexually and physically abused by her husband named “Dale” at the YFZ Ranch, a religious center for members of the FLDS Church. County officials concluded that because FLDS members have been associated with child abuse in the past, any allegations must be true, and that if some FLDS leaders have been marrying minors, then every follower of the religion must be involved in it.

So, instead of finding out where the girl lived and investigating in her home, they took the children away from everyone in the entire town. This is religious bigotry. Whether you think polygamy is sanctioned Biblically or not, it is not equatable with child abuse.

Of course, now we learn that her supposed husband hasn’t been in Texas for three decades according to his probation officer and that the call doesn’t seem genuine:

“There is no verbage or terminology used that leads me to believe the statements were made by someone inside,” said Ezra Draper of Hildale, Utah, who left the FLDS sect six years ago. “I think it’s bunk.”
“The term FLDS use to describe other people is “gentiles,” not outsiders, and they don’t observe such holidays as Easter Sunday, when the alleged victim claimed she was last beaten.”

To me, the questions are

a) When does the government’s case collapse?
b) When are people fired over this?
c) Which government employee is the first to serve jail time?

18 thoughts on “Religious Intolerance”

  1. Wow, thank you for this information. I didn’t know the facts behind this (about the phone call and who sent it).

    Maybe these are the people who Obama was talking about?

  2. On CNN last night they were saying that the state might keep the kids due to the religious beliefs they’re being taught. Because the girls are taught that having babies is the highest achievement a women can experience, the state considers this “child abuse.”

    Now I’m not a Christian myself, so its hard for me to except any sort of Christian indoctrination, but I see no reason why this belief is “child abuse?” Maybe these people believe its child abuse to teach girls that the greatest achievement they can have is having a career? What’s the difference between the two? Both paths are honnorable ways of life.

  3. Seerov

    Don’t believe what CNN says whenever anything related to religion is involved. Recent evidence like the “Seven New Deadly Sins: including failure to recycle” ought to be evidence enough that the MSM prefer reporting an interesting story to getting the facts right.

    The FLDS folks in Colorado City, Arizona have been a thorn in the side of governors since at least the 1950s. They were raided in the early 1950s in a similar fashion and the eventual result was that the Governor lost in the next election and the polygamists went back home. The folks outside of El Dorado are part of the same religious group.

    The thing is that the polygamist Mormons really do the things that they are accused of. They expel teen aged boys and grown men who fall out of favor with the elders in order to maintain the power of the elders and the sex ratio of the community. They marry young girls to much older men and impregnate them as soon as possible in order to keep them bound to the community by their children. Because marriage certificates and birth certificates can be used to convict men of bigamy and statutory rape, they do not maintain those documents.

    The State of Texas is currently performing DNA tests on all the children from the El Dorado compound. This should conclusively establish parentage. Then it will be a matter of establishing the ages of the mothers and children in order to prosecute for statutory rape. In the absence of birth certificates, that might be a problem, but I do think that several convictions are likely to result.

    Rather than being outraged, I like to compare how the State of Texas is handling this with the way the Federal Government handled the Branch Davidians. Nobody has been shot. No armed standoff. No children burned to death.

  4. Dan tdaxp,

    I read the article you posted and I’ve been thinking the same thing since this all started happening. I read similar articles about Africans in Canada, where it was explained that “these practices are just part of their culture.”

    The answer to what’s going on here is White Supremacism. To the American elite, non-whites are expected to live in strange ways and have cultural practices that appear oppressive to women. White people on the other hand are supposed to know better. White people are humans and non-whites are “tribal” (“Tribal” means somewhere between humans and animals).

  5. Seerov,

    Someone class to me (referring to an Islamic charter school in Minneapolis) made a similar point: the governmental support of a Muslim counterculture is distasteful partially because of the callousness the government has shown to the passing of traditional rural culture.

  6. I disagree with Seerov’s analysis of the article and its application to the polygamous Mormon community. Their practices are abhorrent to most Americans but unlike multiculti protected groups, they cannot play the race card as a get out of jail free card.

    In any event, the multiculti defense for statutory rape doesn’t work all that well in Texas. The news regularly carries stories of some man in his twenties or thirties being convicted for having sex with a girl in her early teens. The plea that “It’s common where I come from in Mexico” is usually met with the answer that you are not in Mexico and when you get out of prison and are deported back there, you can indulge yourself with all the thirteen year olds you want.

    Of course, Seerov might well be correct and it is just a matter of Texans being less inclined to White Supremacism than Canadians.

  7. Well, the ACLU is getting involved.

    >> Of course, Seerov might well be correct and it is just a matter of Texans being less inclined to White Supremacism than Canadians.

    There’s someone more inclined to white supremacism than Texans? That’s just crazy talk.

    This is sure to be just a mess. The state government might have had good intentions going in, they had a plan to take the place over and get rid of the bad guys, but now they don’t have a plan. Some sort of “exit strategy”

  8. I’m with Seerov that this is a COnstitutional nightmare. This sounds like a breach of the 4th Amendments guarantee against “unreasonable search and seizure”. We’ve got a bogus phone call, and it would seem that this DNA thing is a fishing expedition(which could and I would ventrue so far as to say should be considered the fruit of the poison tree) that the gov’t really has no reason to begin in the first place.

    It’s a freakin’ nightmare. Sure, I don’t like what they(the FLDS)do, but the means by which the gov’t is going about this is just wrong on so many levels. THere’s a reason there are limits placed on how the gov’t can and will go about these things. There exists already a process for doing this, and by not following it, well, we’ll see what comes out of that Pandora’s box.

    Mark in Texas, that seems a rather odd observation. I mean, couldn’ there be a massive difference between the BD and FLDS in how they react to intrusions? Cou;dn’t there be a difference in how the FLDS has, oh, I dunno, armed or not armed themselves? Isn’t a rather diffuse looking set of ranch homes a lot different than a single bunker like building that the BD had? I just don’t get how you get to where you got.

  9. ry

    We have as another data point the fact that the Texas CPS investigated the Branch Davidians for allegations of child abuse without the widespread loss of life that happened when the Feds got involved a few months later.

    I am not sure why you describe the Branch Davidian’s building as “bunker like”. It looked a lot like the La Quinta Hotel I stayed at on my last business trip. The construction seemed to be standard 2X4 or 2X6 and fiber board or vinyl siding. Usually bunkers are built of stronger stuff.

    I don’t think that the fruit of the poisoned tree works in this case because law officers who were acting in good faith, even if on the basis of what may turn out to be a prank call, observed evidence of criminal activity when they entered the ranch. IANAL so I don’t know if that is how it works outside the 9th Circuit, but I think that it has a pretty good chance of standing up to the initial appeals.

    What is the process that exists for dealing with a geographically wide spread group of legally savvy bigamists and child molesters who routinely hide or falsify legal documents and suborn perjury in addition to their other unsavory habits?

  10. Cambriane,

    From your link:

    BEWARE of racially intolerant white canadian cops and security and their henchmen who claim to be despots

    Will do!

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